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Autor Tópico: Grécia - Tópico principal  (Lida 1844093 vezes)

Zel

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Re: Grécia - Tópico principal
« Responder #7360 em: 2015-07-06 16:39:01 »
nao falta muito para as 24h do varoufakis, o acordo deve estar por minutos  :D

Incognitus

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Re: Grécia - Tópico principal
« Responder #7361 em: 2015-07-06 16:40:21 »
Por exemplo por cá deviamos andar mais preocupados com o facto dos chineses e angolanos de um momento para o outro terem ficado sem cash para cumprir os seus compromissos.

retomam-se as empresas que compraram. nacionalizam-se.
da próxima vez privatizam-se a compradores mais fiáveis.

não deixa de ser irónico conjugar china e pouco fiável.

L

Só se incumprissem face ao Estado ... de resto a tua ideia não faz sentido.
"Nem tudo o que pode ser contado conta, e nem tudo o que conta pode ser contado.", Albert Einstein

Incognitus, www.thinkfn.com

Lark

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Re: Grécia - Tópico principal
« Responder #7362 em: 2015-07-06 16:41:42 »
nao falta muito para as 24h do varoufakis, o acordo deve estar por minutos  :D

distraído....

Citação de: 7 steps ahead
"In 24h we COULD have an agreement", I said. But our toxic media rushed to report that I predicted an agreement within 24h. Go figure!

L
Be Kind; Everyone You Meet is Fighting a Battle.
Ian Mclaren
------------------------------
If you have more than you need, build a longer table rather than a taller fence.
l6l803399
-------------------------------------------
So, first of all, let me assert my firm belief that the only thing we have to fear is...fear itself — nameless, unreasoning, unjustified terror which paralyzes needed efforts to convert retreat into advance.
Franklin D. Roosevelt

Zel

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Re: Grécia - Tópico principal
« Responder #7363 em: 2015-07-06 16:45:48 »
nao falta muito para as 24h do varoufakis, o acordo deve estar por minutos  :D

distraído....

Citação de: 7 steps ahead
"In 24h we COULD have an agreement", I said. But our toxic media rushed to report that I predicted an agreement within 24h. Go figure!

L

in 24h we COULD have an alien invasion


vbm

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Re: Grécia - Tópico principal
« Responder #7364 em: 2015-07-06 16:52:43 »
[ ]
Mas se o tratado de Maastricht tivesse sido cumprido a esmagadora maioria dos problemas presentes não teriam existido, logo o problema não foram as regras, foi sim a sua monitorização/fiscalização, ou por outras palavras, a disciplina.

[ ]

As regras de Maastricht deviam estar embutidas
em mecanismo automático de restrição de importações
e contracção de dívida. Não estiveram de propósito
para facilitar a vida aos exportadores alemães
e a integração da Alemanha de Leste, pelo que
preferiram «empurrar os problemas com a barriga»
e depois deitar as culpas prós pigs.

Lark

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Re: Grécia - Tópico principal
« Responder #7365 em: 2015-07-06 16:54:48 »
‘They will do everything to get us back to the drachma’
 
Sitting in his small, central Athens shop that sells and rents electric bicycles, Thanasis was still charged with enthusiasm at the referendum result from the Sunday night in which 61.3 per cent of voters backed their government’s stance in its negotiations with its creditors.

“This is an excellent result because this is what we expected and already knew, that the people would support the government,” said Thanasis, who sells his bicycles to Greeks and also rents to tourists.

Admitting to being among the minority of Greeks who want to go back to the drachma, Thanasis - who like many Greek interviewees declined to provide his surname - said he would happy for Greece to remain in the euro as long as Tsipras can get a better deal for the country.

“The result is good for everyone. It will help us get a better deal, not only for Greece but for Europe. A Greek exit would start a domino effect and countries like Portugal and Spain would be the next to fall. And EU couldn’t afford that,” he continued.

His business hadn’t been affected that much by the capital controls. His rentals to tourists were continuing as normal, but sales to Greeks had slipped.
“As I can’t transfer money abroad, I can’t import any more stock. But that’s not a problem. I can lively happily for two or three weeks without the banks opening. And I can easily live on €20 a day. Don’t forget that we are a tough people,” he said.

In another shop down the road, there was less enthusiasm for the view that the vote had strengthened the government’s hand.
“For five months they’ve tried and didn’t achieve much, so I’m not sure how the No vote will help. I’m hopeful that it will change things, but I still have my doubts,” said Konstaninos Primis, who sells handcarts and trolley wheels in a small shop typical of the specialised stores dotted that predominate in the narrow streets around Monastiraki in central Athens.

Business had ground to halt since capital controls were introduced in last week, he said.
“All the shops around here are dead. As they don’t know what lies ahead, the public are afraid to buy anything apart from food and other the essentials. Maybe the result will encourage them to spend more, but it’s going to take time,” he said, as he busied himself with paperwork at the back of the store.
Further up the road on Ermou Street, the main shopping mile in the centre of the city, one elderly woman and her adult daughter said their hope now was simply “that things would get better” for Greeks.

“Tsipras tried for five months to get an agreement and didn’t succeed. With this No vote, we’re sure he’ll get something better for us,” the mother explained.
With no pension and her daughter with no job, she said she is wholly dependent on her son who works as a cook in a private hospital and earns €1,000 a month.
“In Greece, we’ve learned to say No and have done it before,” her son said, referring to the rejection in 1940 by Greek dictator Gen Mextaxas of an Italian ultimatum that led to the two counties going to war.

Scathing of the Greek media’s coverage of the referendum campaign, he said TV channels that were never concerned about the long queues in front of dole offices went overboard last week in filming pensioners clamouring to gain access to the banks.

All three declined to provide their names, fearful that it could have consequences for the son’s job.
“For me it’s unacceptable that technocrats and bureaucrats we didn’t vote for are running the system. They are running the European Union, ” said Theodor Fotinopoulos, an unemployed graduate in cinematography from a French university who said he had voted for the first time.
“It’s not a win or a loss. It’s only a message - to wake up and do something. I’m 35-years-old. I feel my generation has been sacrificed. I’ve been searching for a job for a year and a half.

Reflecting the high support in Greece for remaining in the common currency, Fotinopoulos said he wanted “a democratic euro zone”.
“I think the Greeks are afraid. That’s why it’s important that they voted No. They voted No despite being afraid.

And they were still afraid, he continued.
“I’m afraid for tomorrow. I’m afraid they will try to crush us. We gave them a message, and I think they will try to give us a message ... that they don’t want other voters to do the same thing.

“They will do everything to get us to back to the drachma.”
Yes voters were harder to find on the streets or were less prepared to admit to being one.

Aged 25, Yiannis was among the small minority of young people who did vote Yes, admitting that he had reservations about his choice.
“I voted Yes even though I didn’t really support the arguments put forward by the Yes camp. I voted out of fear, especially after reading in the Financial Times that there were plans to impose a 30 per cent haircut on bank deposits over €8,000.”

A sales rep by day and bartender by night, he said he had €25,000 in the bank, all of which he had worked for since he was 18, jobbing while he studied finance and business administration.

“I refused to send my savings abroad like to many others. I disagree with this. And I wasn’t going to withdraw it all and hide it in my home, either,” he said.
A former member of the youth wing of conservative New Democracy, he said he was initially supportive of Tsipras as his old party had “let him down” by not negotiating strong enough with the troika.

“Tsipras’s government now has a strong asset after the result. While I think it will , but I lead an agreement, I don’t think it will be a very good one for us.”
Polls published shortly before the election suggested that support for the No was highest among younger voters.

As the scale of the victory became apparent, many of them rushed to central Athens where thousands waved flags and chanted “No, no, no”.
“It’s a very promising and inspiring result. The people have shown that they’re not afraid of the blackmail from the EU and the ECB. Anything could happen now,” said medical student Dimitris Plageris (24), who was still relishing the result with some friends on Syntagma Square long after the party was over.

“We have sent a message of unity as a people, which shows that we won’t be divided over issues like the drachma and euro,” said Plageris, who paid €30 on a bus ticket to get from the city of Larisa where he studies to vote.

It was a small price to pay for what he now expects to happen, which is that his government will secure “a just agreement with no more austerity and a reduction of Greece’s debt burden”.

“It was a message to the people of the EU that we are brothers and we must establish democracy,” said another man sitting nearby.

irish times

os media irlandeses cobrem a grécia com muita intensidade.
se calhar seria de juntar os irlandeses aos próximos candidatos ao eurexit.

L
Be Kind; Everyone You Meet is Fighting a Battle.
Ian Mclaren
------------------------------
If you have more than you need, build a longer table rather than a taller fence.
l6l803399
-------------------------------------------
So, first of all, let me assert my firm belief that the only thing we have to fear is...fear itself — nameless, unreasoning, unjustified terror which paralyzes needed efforts to convert retreat into advance.
Franklin D. Roosevelt

Lark

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Re: Grécia - Tópico principal
« Responder #7366 em: 2015-07-06 16:55:36 »
nao falta muito para as 24h do varoufakis, o acordo deve estar por minutos  :D

distraído....

Citação de: 7 steps ahead
"In 24h we COULD have an agreement", I said. But our toxic media rushed to report that I predicted an agreement within 24h. Go figure!

L

in 24h we COULD have an alien invasion

in 24 hours you could get a conscience

L
Be Kind; Everyone You Meet is Fighting a Battle.
Ian Mclaren
------------------------------
If you have more than you need, build a longer table rather than a taller fence.
l6l803399
-------------------------------------------
So, first of all, let me assert my firm belief that the only thing we have to fear is...fear itself — nameless, unreasoning, unjustified terror which paralyzes needed efforts to convert retreat into advance.
Franklin D. Roosevelt

vbm

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Re: Grécia - Tópico principal
« Responder #7367 em: 2015-07-06 17:02:02 »
Varoufakis demitiu-se

Por acaso a mim surpreendeu-me pela positiva:

- demonstrou não estar agarrado ao poder
- deixou a porta aberta de modo a entrar um mais moderado para as negociações
- foi coerente com a sua estratégia de confronto

De qualquer modo gostei que o não ganhasse inequivocamente, como também gostaria do sim. O meio termo é que era o pior dos resultados.
Assim foi uma pedrada no charco europeu.
 Agora que dêem corda aos sapatos a alterar o que está errado neste percurso de convergência, pois sem ele continuamos a ter uma Europa dividida, a várias velocidades e uns mais iguais que outros.

Faço minha a reacção do jeab.
E qualifico-a: saudável, justa, politicamente realista.

Claro que pessoalmente Varoufakis soma trunfos pessoais.
«Sai por cima», como se costuma dizer. Merece o respeito que concita.

De qualquer modo, enquanto economista, o que lhe cumpre
é continuar a ver claro e ser coerente e assertivo
com as suas ideias e ideais de comunidade.

vbm

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Re: Grécia - Tópico principal
« Responder #7368 em: 2015-07-06 17:07:50 »

O BCE só pode emprestar a contrapartes solventes. A Grécia só é solvente se tiver um acordo com a UE. O BCE só emprestou no pressuposto que iria haver acordo até 30.06.2015, o que não aconteceu. Não havendo acordo, não poderá emprestar mais, a não ser que o Draghi receba um telefonema da Merkel.

O BCE não tem que receber telefonemas nenhuns.
Tem é de emprestar euros aos bancos da eurozona
que deles precisem, o que equivale emprestar
a si próprio, por definição devedor-administrador
solvente: - assim tipo montepio e seus associados
mutualistas! Quem emite moeda, é solvente
por definição. As demais moedas que ajustem
o câmbio; Un point, c´est tout.

Counter Retail Trader

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Re: Grécia - Tópico principal
« Responder #7369 em: 2015-07-06 17:09:24 »
eu conheço pessoas assim , a culpa é sempre dos outros nunca é delas .  algo que tem em comum é traços de paranoia 

Responsabilizar os outros é sempre mais facil ....

Incognitus

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Re: Grécia - Tópico principal
« Responder #7370 em: 2015-07-06 17:09:42 »
nao falta muito para as 24h do varoufakis, o acordo deve estar por minutos  :D

distraído....

Citação de: 7 steps ahead
"In 24h we COULD have an agreement", I said. But our toxic media rushed to report that I predicted an agreement within 24h. Go figure!

L

in 24h we COULD have an alien invasion

in 24 hours you could get a conscience

L

Lark, isso é implicar que as outras pessoas não têm "uma consciência". Mas repara, as outras pessoas pensam O MESMO daquilo que tu tipicamente invocas, porque:
1) Pensam que funciona pior, e por isso leva a mais miséria humana;
2) E ainda pensam que é pouco ético, sendo que ser pouco ético é uma falha de consciência em si próprio. (sempre que defendes soluções que implicam tirar a uns para dar a outros por razões arbitrárias, isso é desde logo pouco ético. Quando o fazes com uma Grécia onde até defendes tirar a povos mais pobres para dar ao povo Grego mais rico, ainda pior é em termos éticos).

"Nem tudo o que pode ser contado conta, e nem tudo o que conta pode ser contado.", Albert Einstein

Incognitus, www.thinkfn.com

Lark

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Re: Grécia - Tópico principal
« Responder #7371 em: 2015-07-06 17:11:53 »
nao falta muito para as 24h do varoufakis, o acordo deve estar por minutos  :D

distraído....

Citação de: 7 steps ahead
"In 24h we COULD have an agreement", I said. But our toxic media rushed to report that I predicted an agreement within 24h. Go figure!

L

in 24h we COULD have an alien invasion

in 24 hours you could get a conscience

L

Lark, isso é implicar que as outras pessoas não têm "uma consciência". Mas repara, as outras pessoas pensam O MESMO daquilo que tu tipicamente invocas, porque:
1) Pensam que funciona pior, e por isso leva a mais miséria humana;
2) E ainda pensam que é pouco ético, sendo que ser pouco ético é uma falha de consciência em si próprio. (sempre que defendes soluções que implicam tirar a uns para dar a outros por razões arbitrárias, isso é desde logo pouco ético. Quando o fazes com uma Grécia onde até defendes tirar a povos mais pobres para dar ao povo Grego mais rico, ainda pior é em termos éticos).

não concordo. isso é uma concversa completamente vazia.
outra coisa.
quando estiver a responder a outros que não a ti, não esperes novos réplicas minhas.

L
Be Kind; Everyone You Meet is Fighting a Battle.
Ian Mclaren
------------------------------
If you have more than you need, build a longer table rather than a taller fence.
l6l803399
-------------------------------------------
So, first of all, let me assert my firm belief that the only thing we have to fear is...fear itself — nameless, unreasoning, unjustified terror which paralyzes needed efforts to convert retreat into advance.
Franklin D. Roosevelt

Zel

  • Visitante
Re: Grécia - Tópico principal
« Responder #7372 em: 2015-07-06 17:12:12 »
segundo o varoufakis a probabilidade do acordo nas proxs horas eh elevada... eu acredito nele e ainda tenho esperanca que seja hoje.
viva a democracia  :D
(esta quase, quase)
« Última modificação: 2015-07-06 17:12:40 por Neo-Liberal »

tommy

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Re: Grécia - Tópico principal
« Responder #7373 em: 2015-07-06 17:12:25 »
Citar
Greece Hits the Self-Destruct Button
241 Jul 6, 2015 9:13 AM EDT
By Megan McArdle

Greece has decisively voted "no" or "oxi" in the #greferendum. I mean, decisively. By Sunday afternoon here in the U.S., the election map was a solid sea of orange for the "no" side.

I am shocked. I probably shouldn't be. I've been pointing out for a while that countries often do seemingly crazy things to themselves when they are mad at foreigners. The worst possible analysis of any sort of international situation is to say "Obviously, they're not going to do that, because that would be crazy!" There were probably a lot of reporters standing around saying that in 1914, while the crazy people went off and started World War I.

So I'm not shocked because I believed it couldn't happen. I'm just shocked because I thought it wouldn't happen; when I left work on Thursday afternoon, the conventional wisdom was that the Greeks were going to vote "yes" and go back to the negotiating table yet again. But I'm also a bit shocked because I'm now trying to game out exactly what happens next. Whether you think Greece exits the euro or not, things look pretty shockingly bad.

Bloomberg colleague Joe Weisenthal suggests that this is not, in fact, what Greeks are trying to do; they're simply trying to get a better deal from creditors. If true, that's ... well, Hugo Dixon summed it up yesterday afternoon: "Great tragedy of Greek referendum is that many of those who voted NO probably don't realise what is about to hit them"

At this point, Greece is now down to two options:

    -The Troika cravenly caves in the face of the mighty resolve of the Greek people and offers Greece very attractive terms for continued help.
    -The Troika decides that they have had about enough of all this, and Greece exits the euro.

The latter seems far more likely to me than the former. Either the Greeks are gravely mistaken, or I am. But most of the commentary I've seen leans toward my interpretation.

Greece's problem is easy to state: austerity is horrible, a fixed exchange rate makes their economy uncompetitive, and the interaction of those two things promises a lot of misery for a long time. They want someone else to share some of their real and very deep pain.

The Troika's problem is also fairly easy to state, in three words: Spain, Portugal, Italy.

These countries also have a bit of a debt problem, and the euro is not doing any favors for their economic competitiveness. They are much bigger than Greece. While a Greek default and exit from the euro probably won't do much damage to the euro zone's financial stability, a similar move from other PIIGS would present a considerably larger problem. And if Greece gets a fantastic deal from its creditors, then the Troika is quite reasonably afraid that those countries are going to start asking why they're the suckers.

There is a lot of missing the point in current commentary on Greece, a lot of ranting about private creditors who took haircuts years ago, and people citing the IMF to the effect that Greece's debt is unsustainable and can't reasonably ever be paid off. This latter point is true. But it is not a new discovery. It has been known for quite some time that Greece cannot actually pay off the money that is owed. As Daniel Davies wrote back in January, the Greek debt "basically isn’t an economically meaningful number any more. The purpose of its existence is as a political quantity; it’s part of the means by which control is exercised over the Greek budget by the Eurosystem. The regular rituals of renegotiation of the bailout package, financing of debt maturity peaks and so on, are the way in which the solvent Euroland nations exercise the kind of political control that they feel they need to have if they are going to be fiscally responsible for the bills."

Just looking at the mechanics of the IMF default and the pending payment they owe to the European Central Bank tell the tale: they need to come to a deal with creditors so that they will give them the money to pay the IMF, which will give them the money to pay the ECB, and so on down the road. We are not arguing about whether the Greeks should have to do austerity in order to repay creditors; we are arguing over how much austerity creditors will demand in order to continue to lend them money to roll over their unpayable debt.

Why do they need this control, you may ask? Why not just give them a clean haircut and let them rebuild as they will?  Three reasons. The first is practical: Greece's problem isn't just its interest payments. It also needs money for ongoing spending. James Hamilton presents a fairly convincing case that Greece has never really had a substantial primary surplus, which is to say that all along, it has mostly been spending more than it collects in tax revenue, even if you get rid of the interest payments. But even if Greece had a small primary surplus a few weeks ago, it sure doesn't now after a banking crisis. So if Greece exits the euro and defaults, the immediate result will be more austerity, not less.


The second reason that "lots of debt relief" isn't the obvious answer is moral hazard: If default is too pleasant, we will get more of this. The Troika doesn't want any more of this. They think this is quite bad enough.

Of course, the Troika probably should have offered better terms years ago, with more debt forgiveness (if perhaps not as much as Greeks and American progressives would like) and less political control. Instead we've had endless renegotiations, which are costly for everyone, and not incidentally have created enormous bad blood between Greece and the rest of Europe that is making it hard to come to a stable resolution. But the fact is that they didn't, and at this point we are hard up against some ugly politics on both sides, as well as a Greek economic crisis that is going to make all these problems much harder.

Which brings us to our third reason: politics. In the words of Tyler Cowen, "A political program has to be something that voters could at least potentially believe, and international negotiations therefore cannot stray too far from common-sense morality, including when it comes to creditor-debtor relations." I might add a corollary to this: you can actually stray quite far as long as voters aren't paying attention. But once they are, you are going to end up back at boring old saws like "People should pay their debts" rather than advanced macroeconomic theorems. In a democracy, politicians are accountable to voters, however much you may deplore this as pandering to base and uneducated instincts. And German voters do not seem to want their government to give Greece a bunch of money with no strings attached.

So it's hard for me to see how the creditors simply open the taps wide while substantially easing off on the austerity stuff. Which means it's hard for me to see how Greece stays in the euro, barring some miraculous about-face from European politicians during the emergency summit they are planning to hold (which I cannot entirely rule out, but am not exactly counting on). Their banks are shut, people are sketching plans to make bank depositors take haircuts, and without more financial assistance from abroad, the government is going to default on another round of payments by the end of the month. The financial crises I have followed in other countries suggest that the natural next step is devaluation of the currency and restructuring of the banking system, which is to say, leaving the euro. But how, exactly, do they do this? Just the physical challenges of printing and distributing money is daunting. The other issues are harder still.

Normally, if you scrap your currency, you announce a new one for which the old can be swapped at some fixed rate. If you devalue, you announce that your old currency will now trade against dollars and Swiss francs at a new and less favorable exchange rate. But when that happens, the old currency or exchange rate goes away at the same time.  If Grexit happens, you'll have two physical currencies circulating side by side: valuable euros versus drachmas of uncertain worth that no one is going to want to take. Particularly your trading partners. Which in turn will make it even harder to get the drachma up and running to the point that it functions as a reasonable substitute for the old euros.

I'm of the school that says that Greece never should have joined the euro in the first place. But undoing a mistake is rarely as easy as not making it in the first place. The path out of the euro is going to be a lot harder than the path that would have led away from it 20 years ago. Nonetheless, that seems to be the path that Greek voters have chosen.


This column does not necessarily reflect the opinion of Bloomberg View's editorial board or Bloomberg LP, its owners and investors.

To contact the author on this story:
Megan McArdle at mmcardle3@bloomberg.net

Mais uma que não pensa 7 passos à frente.
Não anda feliz e descontraída com a desgraça de idosos, doentes e trabalhadores.
Que não segue o guião.  :D

Automek

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Re: Grécia - Tópico principal
« Responder #7374 em: 2015-07-06 17:12:51 »
Citar
Nova data prevista para a abertura dos bancos: quinta-feira

O presidente da associação de bancos gregos acaba de informar que o feriado bancário foi alargado em dois dias, ou seja, terça e quarta-feira.

A nova data prevista para a reabertura passou a ser quinta-feira.
Observador


Citar
Merkel arrives for talks with @fhollande on Greece. Press conference at 7pm on http://euronews.com/live 

às 18 horas nossas

tommy

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Re: Grécia - Tópico principal
« Responder #7375 em: 2015-07-06 17:17:04 »
Citar
Nova data prevista para a abertura dos bancos: quinta-feira

O presidente da associação de bancos gregos acaba de informar que o feriado bancário foi alargado em dois dias, ou seja, terça e quarta-feira.

A nova data prevista para a reabertura passou a ser quinta-feira.
Observador


Citar
Merkel arrives for talks with @fhollande on Greece. Press conference at 7pm on http://euronews.com/live 

às 18 horas nossas


Na quinta começam a distribuir ao balcão dos bancos papelinhos escritos à mão a dizer:

"Vale 1 sandes. Palavra de honra. Tsipras."
« Última modificação: 2015-07-06 17:17:33 por tommy »

Incognitus

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Re: Grécia - Tópico principal
« Responder #7376 em: 2015-07-06 17:17:58 »
nao falta muito para as 24h do varoufakis, o acordo deve estar por minutos  :D

distraído....

Citação de: 7 steps ahead
"In 24h we COULD have an agreement", I said. But our toxic media rushed to report that I predicted an agreement within 24h. Go figure!

L

in 24h we COULD have an alien invasion

in 24 hours you could get a conscience

L

Lark, isso é implicar que as outras pessoas não têm "uma consciência". Mas repara, as outras pessoas pensam O MESMO daquilo que tu tipicamente invocas, porque:
1) Pensam que funciona pior, e por isso leva a mais miséria humana;
2) E ainda pensam que é pouco ético, sendo que ser pouco ético é uma falha de consciência em si próprio. (sempre que defendes soluções que implicam tirar a uns para dar a outros por razões arbitrárias, isso é desde logo pouco ético. Quando o fazes com uma Grécia onde até defendes tirar a povos mais pobres para dar ao povo Grego mais rico, ainda pior é em termos éticos).

não concordo. isso é uma concversa completamente vazia.
outra coisa.
quando estiver a responder a outros que não a ti, não esperes novos réplicas minhas.

L

Não, vazio é tu pensares que tens o "high ground moral". Aliás, isso é comum em determinada ideologia, que tu de uma forma ou de outra, defendes.

É comum, mas não significa que seja verdadeiro.

Eu pensei aliás em apagar a tua resposta linearmente, porque a tua posição nesse aspecto é absurda (como é a da ideologia em questão).
"Nem tudo o que pode ser contado conta, e nem tudo o que conta pode ser contado.", Albert Einstein

Incognitus, www.thinkfn.com

Zel

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Re: Grécia - Tópico principal
« Responder #7377 em: 2015-07-06 17:18:28 »
sandes com manteiga  :D
« Última modificação: 2015-07-06 17:18:56 por Neo-Liberal »

Mystery

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Re: Grécia - Tópico principal
« Responder #7378 em: 2015-07-06 17:25:32 »
Por exemplo por cá deviamos andar mais preocupados com o facto dos chineses e angolanos de um momento para o outro terem ficado sem cash para cumprir os seus compromissos.

retomam-se as empresas que compraram. nacionalizam-se.
da próxima vez privatizam-se a compradores mais fiáveis.

não deixa de ser irónico conjugar china e pouco fiável.

L

Só se incumprissem face ao Estado ... de resto a tua ideia não faz sentido.

um pais sem dinheiro a nacionalizar empresas com necessidades de capital gigantescas

deveras inteligente   :D
A fool with a tool is still a fool.

pedferre

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Re: Grécia - Tópico principal
« Responder #7379 em: 2015-07-06 17:26:17 »
bem acho que vao permitir o perdao de 30% da divida grega em troca do aumento de impostos. o comunicado do fmi na quinta a falar que a divida grega devia ser perdoada em 30% para ficar em 130% do pib ao nivel de italia, portugal e irlanda nao foi inocente. agora se eles nao poem as contas em ordem vai ser sempre a atirar para la mais dinheiro.