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Autor Tópico: Raça, Genética e QI  (Lida 87859 vezes)

Incognitus

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Re:Raça, Genética e QI
« Responder #200 em: 2015-02-06 20:05:41 »
Em relação aos rufias e tsunamis eu apenas quis mostrar que as situações não são obvias e simples e que n cenários podem ser desenvolvidos, cada um se calhar o mais próximo do ponto que queremos provar. Logo se há seleção adversa ou não será altamente discutível. Eu já dei a minha opinião.
Em relação ao comunismo ser o pior sistema ou não, como já referi, estar sob o regime comunista na Rússia, RDA é muito diferente de estar numa república satélite da URSS tipo Uzbequistão. Mais uma vez repito. Havia conhecimentos técnicos elevados, organização de áreas do estado, pessoas com empregos relativamente banais, indústria. Não era tudo aparelho de estado. Numa situação de guerra civil, não tens o tal paradigma de produzir para trocar com os outros e não tens os aspectos de organização e os outros que referi anteriormente. Para mim é totalmente diferente.

A WWII dura de 39 a 45, o período temporal é incomparável com o que estávamos a discutir antes. E a WWII obrigou a existência de indústria, investigação, avanços científicos brutais na área médica, química, engenharia, etc. Fora que depois houve países apoiados no processo de recuperação.

O PIB da Mongólia sem ser PPP é de 1800 USD.
No Uzbequistão tinhas crianças a serem retiradas das escolhas para trabalhar na coleta de algodão. Havia cotas por criança. Aumentar o PIB assim ....

Uma guerra civil não é um sistema.

O Uzbequistão e a Mongólia certamente partiram atrasados e ninguém se desenvolve instantaneamente. Porém, a direcção em que vão é positiva. Em última análise a Mongólia deverá chegar mais longe.

----

Neste países os preços são de tal forma diferentes que tem mesmo que se usar a paridade de poder de compra. Infelizmente o Google n tinha o Uzbequistão em PPP, mas mesmo em PPP o seu GDP per capita é inferior ao da Mongólia. Ambos os países estão a crescer a taxas elevadas (a Mongólia mais).
« Última modificação: 2015-02-06 20:08:54 por Incognitus »
"Nem tudo o que pode ser contado conta, e nem tudo o que conta pode ser contado.", Albert Einstein

Incognitus, www.thinkfn.com

Thunder

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Re:Raça, Genética e QI
« Responder #201 em: 2015-02-06 23:04:48 »
Pois não é um sistema e é esse o problema. Regime colonial altamente extractivo, seguido dum regime ditatorial ou guerra civil. O somatório destas porcarias de estruturas sociais totalizam séculos. O resultado está a vista.

No caso dos países em tens QIs mais altos dizes que é preciso tempo. No caso dos que tem QI "baixos" não compreendes que muitos partem dum ponto horrivelmente baixo e que muitos deles nem sequer ainda tiveram regimes que permitam o crescimento arrancar com força. O tal tempo que pedes para os que encaixam na teoria que defendes.
Mas vê lá que um país com gajos de baixo QI, quando deixado minimamente em paz, sem ter sido destroçado e que conseguiu uma transição para um regime minimamente estável e justo, consegue um PIB per capita jeitoso. O seu nome é Botswana. 7000 USD per capita em 2014 e não precisas de ser PPP. Quase 15 200 USD ajustado PPP.
O Uzbequistão, até há pouco tempo (não sei se ainda continua) tirava crianças da escola para irem colher algodão. As crianças tinham cotas a cumprir. Garanto-te que com política destas não vão longe. A queimar uma geração, eles não evoluirão grande coisa.
É um exemplo do que quero mostrar.
Esteve sob a alçada da porcaria do comunismo (sendo uma república satélite, logo com as fragilidades que citei anteriormente, não é a Rússia ou a ex-RDA), e agora cai nas mãos dum regime "democrático" que é um lixo. Não pode dar bom resultado...
Sobre a organização na Mongólia não posso falar, não tenho a mínima noção do que se passa por lá.

« Última modificação: 2015-02-06 23:10:16 por Thunder »
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Bulls make money, bears make money.... pigs get slaughtered

Incognitus

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Re:Raça, Genética e QI
« Responder #202 em: 2015-02-06 23:11:27 »
Qualquer país com um regime favorável vai conseguir evoluir. Os que têm QIs mais elevados vão conseguir evoluir até mais longe. E os que têm QIs mais elevados também vão tendo uma probabilidade maior de obterem um regime favorável.

O Botswana parece ser um país bastante liberal, também. Sempre ajuda bastante (a par com os diamantes, turismo, e agora aparentemente finanças).
« Última modificação: 2015-02-06 23:34:27 por Incognitus »
"Nem tudo o que pode ser contado conta, e nem tudo o que conta pode ser contado.", Albert Einstein

Incognitus, www.thinkfn.com

karnuss

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Re:Raça, Genética e QI
« Responder #203 em: 2015-02-18 22:46:39 »


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Are You Emotionally Intelligent? Here's How to Know for Sure.

When emotional intelligence (EQ) first appeared to the masses, it served as the missing link in a peculiar finding: people with average IQs outperform those with the highest IQs 70% of the time. This anomaly threw a massive wrench into the broadly held assumption that IQ was the sole source of success.

Decades of research now point to emotional intelligence as being the critical factor that sets star performers apart from the rest of the pack. The connection is so strong that 90% of top performers have high emotional intelligence.

Emotional intelligence is the “something” in each of us that is a bit intangible. It affects how we manage behavior, navigate social complexities, and make personal decisions to achieve positive results.

Despite the significance of EQ, its intangible nature makes it very difficult to know how much you have and what you can do to improve if you’re lacking. You can always take a scientifically validated test, such as the one that comes with theEmotional Intelligence 2.0 book.

Unfortunately, quality (scientifically valid) EQ tests aren’t free. So, I’ve analyzed the data from the million-plus people TalentSmart has tested in order to identify the behaviors that are the hallmarks of a high EQ. What follows are sure signs that you have a high EQ.

You Have a Robust Emotional Vocabulary
All people experience emotions, but it is a select few who can accurately identify them as they occur. Our research shows that only 36% of people can do this, which is problematic because unlabeled emotions often go misunderstood, which leads to irrational choices and counterproductive actions.

People with high EQs master their emotions because they understand them, and they use an extensive vocabulary of feelings to do so. While many people might describe themselves as simply feeling “bad,” emotionally intelligent people can pinpoint whether they feel “irritable,” “frustrated,” “downtrodden,” or “anxious.” The more specific your word choice, the better insight you have into exactly how you are feeling, what caused it, and what you should do about it.

You’re Curious about People
It doesn’t matter if they’re introverted or extroverted, emotionally intelligent people are curious about everyone around them. This curiosity is the product of empathy, one of the most significant gateways to a high EQ. The more you care about other people and what they’re going through, the more curiosity you’re going to have about them.

You Embrace Change
Emotionally intelligent people are flexible and are constantly adapting. They know that fear of change is paralyzing and a major threat to their success and happiness. They look for change that is lurking just around the corner, and they form a plan of action should these changes occur.


You Know Your Strengths and Weaknesses
Emotionally intelligent people don’t just understand emotions; they know what they’re good at and what they’re terrible at. They also know who pushes their buttons and the environments (both situations and people) that enable them to succeed. Having a high EQ means you know your strengths and you know how to lean into them and use them to your full advantage while keeping your weaknesses from holding you back.

You’re a Good Judge of Character
Much of emotional intelligence comes down to social awareness; the ability to read other people, know what they’re about, and understand what they're going through. Over time, this skill makes you an exceptional judge of character. People are no mystery to you. You know what they’re all about and understand their motivations, even those that lie hidden beneath the surface.

You Are Difficult to Offend
If you have a firm grasp of whom you are, it’s difficult for someone to say or do something that gets your goat. Emotionally intelligent people are self-confident and open-minded, which creates a pretty thick skin. You may even poke fun at yourself or let other people make jokes about you because you are able to mentally draw the line between humor and degradation.

You Know How to Say No (to Yourself and Others)
Emotional intelligence means knowing how to exert self-control. You delay gratification, and you avoid impulsive action. Research conducted at the University of California, San Francisco, shows that the more difficulty that you have saying no, the more likely you are to experience stress, burnout, and even depression. Saying no is indeed a major self-control challenge for many people. “No” is a powerful word that you should not be afraid to wield. When it’s time to say no, emotionally intelligent people avoid phrases such as “I don’t think I can” or “I’m not certain.” Saying no to a new commitment honors your existing commitments and gives you the opportunity to successfully fulfill them.

You Let Go of Mistakes
Emotionally intelligent people distance themselves from their mistakes, but do so without forgetting them. By keeping their mistakes at a safe distance, yet still handy enough to refer to, they are able to adapt and adjust for future success. It takes refined self-awareness to walk this tightrope between dwelling and remembering. Dwelling too long on your mistakes makes you anxious and gun shy, while forgetting about them completely makes you bound to repeat them. The key to balance lies in your ability to transform failures into nuggets of improvement. This creates the tendency to get right back up every time you fall down.

You Give and Expect Nothing in Return
When someone gives you something spontaneously, without expecting anything in return, this leaves a powerful impression. For example, you might have an interesting conversation with someone about a book, and when you see them again a month later, you show up with the book in hand. Emotionally intelligent people build strong relationships because they are constantly thinking about others.

You Don’t Hold Grudges
The negative emotions that come with holding onto a grudge are actually a stress response. Just thinking about the event sends your body into fight-or-flight mode, a survival mechanism that forces you to stand up and fight or run for the hills when faced with a threat. When the threat is imminent, this reaction is essential to your survival, but when the threat is ancient history, holding onto that stress wreaks havoc on your body and can have devastating health consequences over time. In fact, researchers at Emory University have shown that holding onto stress contributes to high blood pressure and heart disease. Holding onto a grudge means you’re holding onto stress, and emotionally intelligent people know to avoid this at all costs. Letting go of a grudge not only makes you feel better now but can also improve your health.

You Neutralize Toxic People
Dealing with difficult people is frustrating and exhausting for most. High EQ individuals control their interactions with toxic people by keeping their feelings in check. When they need to confront a toxic person, they approach the situation rationally. They identify their own emotions and don’t allow anger or frustration to fuel the chaos. They also consider the difficult person’s standpoint and are able to find solutions and common ground. Even when things completely derail, emotionally intelligent people are able to take the toxic person with a grain of salt to avoid letting him or her bring them down.

You Don’t Seek Perfection
Emotionally intelligent people won’t set perfection as their target because they know that it doesn’t exist. Human beings, by our very nature, are fallible. When perfection is your goal, you’re always left with a nagging sense of failure that makes you want to give up or reduce your effort. You end up spending your time lamenting what you failed to accomplish and what you should have done differently instead of moving forward, excited about what you've achieved and what you will accomplish in the future.

You Appreciate What You Have
Taking time to contemplate what you’re grateful for isn’t merely the right thing to do; it also improves your mood because it reduces the stress hormone cortisol by 23%. Research conducted at the University of California, Davis, found that people who worked daily to cultivate an attitude of gratitude experienced improved mood, energy, and physical well-being. It’s likely that lower levels of cortisol played a major role in this.

You Disconnect
Taking regular time off the grid is a sign of a high EQ because it helps you to keep your stress under control and to live in the moment. When you make yourself available to your work 24/7, you expose yourself to a constant barrage of stressors. Forcing yourself offline and even—gulp!—turning off your phone gives your body and mind a break. Studies have shown that something as simple as an e-mail break can lower stress levels. Technology enables constant communication and the expectation that you should be available 24/7. It is extremely difficult to enjoy a stress-free moment outside of work when an e-mail that will change your train of thought and get you thinking (read: stressing) about work can drop onto your phone at any moment.


You Limit Your Caffeine Intake

Drinking excessive amounts of caffeine triggers the release of adrenaline, and adrenaline is the source of the fight-or-flight response. The fight-or-flight mechanism sidesteps rational thinking in favor of a faster response to ensure survival. This is great when a bear is chasing you, but not so great when you’re responding to a curt e-mail. When caffeine puts your brain and body into this hyper-aroused state of stress, your emotions overrun your behavior. Caffeine’s long half-life ensures you stay this way as it takes its sweet time working its way out of your body. High-EQ individuals know that caffeine is trouble, and they don’t let it get the better of them.

You Get Enough Sleep
It’s difficult to overstate the importance of sleep to increasing your emotional intelligence and managing your stress levels. When you sleep, your brain literally recharges, shuffling through the day’s memories and storing or discarding them (which causes dreams) so that you wake up alert and clearheaded. High-EQ individuals know that their self-control, attention, and memory are all reduced when they don’t get enough—or the right kind—of sleep. So, they make sleep a top priority.

You Stop Negative Self-Talk in Its Tracks
The more you ruminate on negative thoughts, the more power you give them. Most of our negative thoughts are just that—thoughts, not facts. When it feels like something always or never happens, this is just your brain’s natural tendency to perceive threats (inflating the frequency or severity of an event). Emotionally intelligent people separate their thoughts from the facts in order to escape the cycle of negativity and move toward a positive, new outlook.

You Won’t Let Anyone Limit Your Joy
When your sense of pleasure and satisfaction are derived from the opinions of other people, you are no longer the master of your own happiness. When emotionally intelligent people feel good about something that they’ve done, they won’t let anyone’s opinions or snide remarks take that away from them. While it’s impossible to turn off your reactions to what others think of you, you don’t have to compare yourself to others, and you can always take people’s opinions with a grain of salt. That way, no matter what other people are thinking or doing, your self-worth comes from within.


http://www.entrepreneur.com/article/242881

vbm

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Re:Raça, Genética e QI
« Responder #204 em: 2015-02-18 22:58:01 »
Qualquer país com um regime favorável vai conseguir evoluir. Os que têm QIs mais elevados vão conseguir evoluir até mais longe. E os que têm QIs mais elevados também vão tendo uma probabilidade maior de obterem um regime favorável.

O Botswana parece ser um país bastante liberal, também. Sempre ajuda bastante (a par com os diamantes, turismo, e agora aparentemente finanças).


Aqui há uns anos, uma pessoa notava que tinha entrado no Botswana,
porque tudo começava a aparecer muito mais sujo.

Mas agora que o QI se elevou
já não deve ser assim!

Incognitus

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Re:Raça, Genética e QI
« Responder #205 em: 2015-02-18 23:24:27 »
Deve ter sido mesmo há muitos anos, o Botswana já tem um PIB per capita mais elevado que a África do sul há cerca de 15 anos.

Ou então entrava-se no Botswana de avião, vindo de um país mais desenvolvido.
"Nem tudo o que pode ser contado conta, e nem tudo o que conta pode ser contado.", Albert Einstein

Incognitus, www.thinkfn.com

Incognitus

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Re:Raça, Genética e QI
« Responder #206 em: 2015-02-18 23:25:52 »


Citar
Are You Emotionally Intelligent? Here's How to Know for Sure.

When emotional intelligence (EQ) first appeared to the masses, it served as the missing link in a peculiar finding: people with average IQs outperform those with the highest IQs 70% of the time. This anomaly threw a massive wrench into the broadly held assumption that IQ was the sole source of success.

Decades of research now point to emotional intelligence as being the critical factor that sets star performers apart from the rest of the pack. The connection is so strong that 90% of top performers have high emotional intelligence.

Emotional intelligence is the “something” in each of us that is a bit intangible. It affects how we manage behavior, navigate social complexities, and make personal decisions to achieve positive results.

Despite the significance of EQ, its intangible nature makes it very difficult to know how much you have and what you can do to improve if you’re lacking. You can always take a scientifically validated test, such as the one that comes with theEmotional Intelligence 2.0 book.

Unfortunately, quality (scientifically valid) EQ tests aren’t free. So, I’ve analyzed the data from the million-plus people TalentSmart has tested in order to identify the behaviors that are the hallmarks of a high EQ. What follows are sure signs that you have a high EQ.

You Have a Robust Emotional Vocabulary
All people experience emotions, but it is a select few who can accurately identify them as they occur. Our research shows that only 36% of people can do this, which is problematic because unlabeled emotions often go misunderstood, which leads to irrational choices and counterproductive actions.

People with high EQs master their emotions because they understand them, and they use an extensive vocabulary of feelings to do so. While many people might describe themselves as simply feeling “bad,” emotionally intelligent people can pinpoint whether they feel “irritable,” “frustrated,” “downtrodden,” or “anxious.” The more specific your word choice, the better insight you have into exactly how you are feeling, what caused it, and what you should do about it.

You’re Curious about People
It doesn’t matter if they’re introverted or extroverted, emotionally intelligent people are curious about everyone around them. This curiosity is the product of empathy, one of the most significant gateways to a high EQ. The more you care about other people and what they’re going through, the more curiosity you’re going to have about them.

You Embrace Change
Emotionally intelligent people are flexible and are constantly adapting. They know that fear of change is paralyzing and a major threat to their success and happiness. They look for change that is lurking just around the corner, and they form a plan of action should these changes occur.


You Know Your Strengths and Weaknesses
Emotionally intelligent people don’t just understand emotions; they know what they’re good at and what they’re terrible at. They also know who pushes their buttons and the environments (both situations and people) that enable them to succeed. Having a high EQ means you know your strengths and you know how to lean into them and use them to your full advantage while keeping your weaknesses from holding you back.

You’re a Good Judge of Character
Much of emotional intelligence comes down to social awareness; the ability to read other people, know what they’re about, and understand what they're going through. Over time, this skill makes you an exceptional judge of character. People are no mystery to you. You know what they’re all about and understand their motivations, even those that lie hidden beneath the surface.

You Are Difficult to Offend
If you have a firm grasp of whom you are, it’s difficult for someone to say or do something that gets your goat. Emotionally intelligent people are self-confident and open-minded, which creates a pretty thick skin. You may even poke fun at yourself or let other people make jokes about you because you are able to mentally draw the line between humor and degradation.

You Know How to Say No (to Yourself and Others)
Emotional intelligence means knowing how to exert self-control. You delay gratification, and you avoid impulsive action. Research conducted at the University of California, San Francisco, shows that the more difficulty that you have saying no, the more likely you are to experience stress, burnout, and even depression. Saying no is indeed a major self-control challenge for many people. “No” is a powerful word that you should not be afraid to wield. When it’s time to say no, emotionally intelligent people avoid phrases such as “I don’t think I can” or “I’m not certain.” Saying no to a new commitment honors your existing commitments and gives you the opportunity to successfully fulfill them.

You Let Go of Mistakes
Emotionally intelligent people distance themselves from their mistakes, but do so without forgetting them. By keeping their mistakes at a safe distance, yet still handy enough to refer to, they are able to adapt and adjust for future success. It takes refined self-awareness to walk this tightrope between dwelling and remembering. Dwelling too long on your mistakes makes you anxious and gun shy, while forgetting about them completely makes you bound to repeat them. The key to balance lies in your ability to transform failures into nuggets of improvement. This creates the tendency to get right back up every time you fall down.

You Give and Expect Nothing in Return
When someone gives you something spontaneously, without expecting anything in return, this leaves a powerful impression. For example, you might have an interesting conversation with someone about a book, and when you see them again a month later, you show up with the book in hand. Emotionally intelligent people build strong relationships because they are constantly thinking about others.

You Don’t Hold Grudges
The negative emotions that come with holding onto a grudge are actually a stress response. Just thinking about the event sends your body into fight-or-flight mode, a survival mechanism that forces you to stand up and fight or run for the hills when faced with a threat. When the threat is imminent, this reaction is essential to your survival, but when the threat is ancient history, holding onto that stress wreaks havoc on your body and can have devastating health consequences over time. In fact, researchers at Emory University have shown that holding onto stress contributes to high blood pressure and heart disease. Holding onto a grudge means you’re holding onto stress, and emotionally intelligent people know to avoid this at all costs. Letting go of a grudge not only makes you feel better now but can also improve your health.

You Neutralize Toxic People
Dealing with difficult people is frustrating and exhausting for most. High EQ individuals control their interactions with toxic people by keeping their feelings in check. When they need to confront a toxic person, they approach the situation rationally. They identify their own emotions and don’t allow anger or frustration to fuel the chaos. They also consider the difficult person’s standpoint and are able to find solutions and common ground. Even when things completely derail, emotionally intelligent people are able to take the toxic person with a grain of salt to avoid letting him or her bring them down.

You Don’t Seek Perfection
Emotionally intelligent people won’t set perfection as their target because they know that it doesn’t exist. Human beings, by our very nature, are fallible. When perfection is your goal, you’re always left with a nagging sense of failure that makes you want to give up or reduce your effort. You end up spending your time lamenting what you failed to accomplish and what you should have done differently instead of moving forward, excited about what you've achieved and what you will accomplish in the future.

You Appreciate What You Have
Taking time to contemplate what you’re grateful for isn’t merely the right thing to do; it also improves your mood because it reduces the stress hormone cortisol by 23%. Research conducted at the University of California, Davis, found that people who worked daily to cultivate an attitude of gratitude experienced improved mood, energy, and physical well-being. It’s likely that lower levels of cortisol played a major role in this.

You Disconnect
Taking regular time off the grid is a sign of a high EQ because it helps you to keep your stress under control and to live in the moment. When you make yourself available to your work 24/7, you expose yourself to a constant barrage of stressors. Forcing yourself offline and even—gulp!—turning off your phone gives your body and mind a break. Studies have shown that something as simple as an e-mail break can lower stress levels. Technology enables constant communication and the expectation that you should be available 24/7. It is extremely difficult to enjoy a stress-free moment outside of work when an e-mail that will change your train of thought and get you thinking (read: stressing) about work can drop onto your phone at any moment.


You Limit Your Caffeine Intake

Drinking excessive amounts of caffeine triggers the release of adrenaline, and adrenaline is the source of the fight-or-flight response. The fight-or-flight mechanism sidesteps rational thinking in favor of a faster response to ensure survival. This is great when a bear is chasing you, but not so great when you’re responding to a curt e-mail. When caffeine puts your brain and body into this hyper-aroused state of stress, your emotions overrun your behavior. Caffeine’s long half-life ensures you stay this way as it takes its sweet time working its way out of your body. High-EQ individuals know that caffeine is trouble, and they don’t let it get the better of them.

You Get Enough Sleep
It’s difficult to overstate the importance of sleep to increasing your emotional intelligence and managing your stress levels. When you sleep, your brain literally recharges, shuffling through the day’s memories and storing or discarding them (which causes dreams) so that you wake up alert and clearheaded. High-EQ individuals know that their self-control, attention, and memory are all reduced when they don’t get enough—or the right kind—of sleep. So, they make sleep a top priority.

You Stop Negative Self-Talk in Its Tracks
The more you ruminate on negative thoughts, the more power you give them. Most of our negative thoughts are just that—thoughts, not facts. When it feels like something always or never happens, this is just your brain’s natural tendency to perceive threats (inflating the frequency or severity of an event). Emotionally intelligent people separate their thoughts from the facts in order to escape the cycle of negativity and move toward a positive, new outlook.

You Won’t Let Anyone Limit Your Joy
When your sense of pleasure and satisfaction are derived from the opinions of other people, you are no longer the master of your own happiness. When emotionally intelligent people feel good about something that they’ve done, they won’t let anyone’s opinions or snide remarks take that away from them. While it’s impossible to turn off your reactions to what others think of you, you don’t have to compare yourself to others, and you can always take people’s opinions with a grain of salt. That way, no matter what other people are thinking or doing, your self-worth comes from within.


http://www.entrepreneur.com/article/242881


Um texto - mas seriam precisos magotes de estudos, como existe para o QI. E o QI ter significância não significa que não existam outros indicadores também com significância. Simplesmente o QI já tem um historial de investigação extraordinariamente vasto.

Citar
When emotional intelligence (EQ) first appeared to the masses, it served as the missing link in a peculiar finding: people with average IQs outperform those with the highest IQs 70% of the time. This anomaly threw a massive wrench into the broadly held assumption that IQ was the sole source of success.


Isto tem toda a probabilidade de ser uma falácia, ou, simplesmente, falso. Teria que se ver um estudo para ver o que estão realmente a dizer.

O resto do texto também tem um magote de afirmações não provadas - é um mau texto.

(é fácil de chegar aqueles 70% se se fizer um mau estudo - porque por exemplo existem muito mais pessoas em volta da média do QI do que no extremo superior. Assim basta que a actividade em que se está a medir tenha variabilidade suficiente e teremos mais pessoas com QI médio à frente dos QIs elevados mas, proporcionalmente, MUITO mais QIs elevados representados nos que atingem melhor performance - o que se começa logo a ver na estatística de 70%, porque QIs verdadeiramente elevados serão tipo 2.5% das pessoas -- acima de 130)
« Última modificação: 2015-02-18 23:31:09 por Incognitus »
"Nem tudo o que pode ser contado conta, e nem tudo o que conta pode ser contado.", Albert Einstein

Incognitus, www.thinkfn.com

karnuss

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Re:Raça, Genética e QI
« Responder #207 em: 2015-02-19 18:18:18 »
O texto não é mau, é até bastante bom. Não pretende ser um artigo científico, mas sim um artigo de opinião, com o qual concordo bastante. O QE é fundamental e tão importante como o QI. Eu posso falar por mim: os vários testes de QI que fiz (escrito e online) dão-me um valor acima de 130, o que faz de mim alguém  bastante inteligente. Contudo, há aspectos relacionados com o QE e descritos no texto, que terei ainda de trabalhar e melhorar bastante, se quiser ter mais sucesso pessoal e profisisonal.

Incognitus

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Re:Raça, Genética e QI
« Responder #208 em: 2015-02-19 18:47:01 »
É por ser um artigo de opinião que é mau, principalmente no aspecto em que forma opiniões que se guiam por ele em vez de factos ou estudos.

Por exemplo, tu já estás a exibir isso mesmo:

Citar
O QE é fundamental e tão importante como o QI.

Esse é o tipo de crença que só se pode deter se, depois de se fazerem magotes de estudos a correlacionar QI com outras variáveis e QE com outras variáveis, o QE mostrar mais consistência.

Não obsta isto a que o QE não possa ter relevância, ou que não tenhas todo o género de vantagens em o desenvolver. Simplesmente, também não convém deixar a coisa gerar-te ideias não provadas ou mesmo erradas.

À partida, e SEM grandes estudos, é altamente provável que o QE seja um predictor inferior ao QI. Quanto mais não seja porque o conceito de QI (e variantes) foi largamente adoptado e o QE nem por isso. A sociedade tende a adoptar soluções melhores, quando uma boa solução aparece tende a ser copiada e a espalhar-se rapidamente. Se algo existe e não se espalha, a probabilidade está contra essa coisa ser efectivamente melhor.
"Nem tudo o que pode ser contado conta, e nem tudo o que conta pode ser contado.", Albert Einstein

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Zel

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Re:Raça, Genética e QI
« Responder #209 em: 2015-02-19 19:47:34 »
o verdadeiro QE eh a prova de estudos

karnuss

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Re:Raça, Genética e QI
« Responder #210 em: 2015-02-19 19:50:34 »
o verdadeiro QE eh a prova de estudos

Claro, são soft skills dificilmente mensuráveis, o "it factor" que os mais bem sucedidos têm. Inc, não podes comparar alhos e bugalhos... O QI estuda-se há mais de 100 anos, o QE e a inteligência emocional são conceitos bem mais recentes. É normal o primeiro estar muito mais estudado que o segundo.
« Última modificação: 2015-02-19 22:51:17 por karnuss »

Incognitus

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Re:Raça, Genética e QI
« Responder #211 em: 2015-02-20 00:19:04 »
o verdadeiro QE eh a prova de estudos

Claro, são soft skills dificilmente mensuráveis, o "it factor" que os mais bem sucedidos têm. Inc, não podes comparar alhos e bugalhos... O QI estuda-se há mais de 100 anos, o QE e a inteligência emocional são conceitos bem mais recentes. É normal o primeiro estar muito mais estudado que o segundo.

Se for suficientemente soft então não podes fazer as afirmações acima pois não as podes provar (e sendo afirmações extraordinárias, requereriam prova).

Os mais bem sucedidos terem essas características também não chega - porque terias também que ver o que acontece a todos os que têm as características e não apenas se os mais bem sucedidos as têm.
"Nem tudo o que pode ser contado conta, e nem tudo o que conta pode ser contado.", Albert Einstein

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Iznogoud

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IQ BS
« Responder #212 em: 2015-02-24 19:42:18 »
One of the most incendiary topics in all of psychology is race differences in intelligence. Blacks score worse than whites do on intelligence tests, about 15 points worse to be exact, and psychologists have known this since the 1910's. Every few decades the public is reminded of this fact. It happened in 1969 with Arthur Jensen's famous article in the Harvard Educational Review, in 1994 with the publication of The Bell Curve, and in 2013 with the the discovery of Jason Richwine's dissertation. Each time these facts are brought to light a media shit storm ensues. Researchers who think that blacks score lower on intelligence tests than whites because of genetic differences between blacks and whites, so called hereditarians, are often labeled racists by the media. And the hereditarians insist that they are just being good scientists. They're telling the public the facts, even if the public doesn't want to acknowledge them. The truth is that both camps are in error. Many hereditarian researchers are not racist. But they are wrong. The facts do not support the view that genetics has anything with do with racial differences in intelligence. To demonstrate this I am going to analyze the common argument in favor of hereditarianism, show why they are wrong, and then demonstrate that we have good reason to suspect that the environment is what accounts for the black white IQ gap.

Many hereditarians start by pointing out that many studies shown that differences between individuals in intelligence are substantially due to differences in genetics. But individual differences being caused by genetic differences does not entail that group differences are. Consider two gardens of corn. Within each garden, the differences in height between corn stalks is mostly due to genetic differences between stalks. But the stalks in one garden are, on average, much taller than the stalks in the other garden. And this has nothing to do with genetics, it is because one garden gets much more sunlight than the other. Thus, the heritability of individual differences tells us nothing about the heritability of group differences.

Hereditarians also often note that many obvious environmental theories fail. For instance, blacks from rich families have lower IQ's than whites from poor families. So theories that center around poverty and education probably fall flat. But there are many more facets to environment than education and money. Nutrition, pre natal environment, and one's culture, are some obvious choices. Further more, what this argument boils down to is that environmentalists often have trouble proving which particular environmental variables cause the black white IQ gap. But the same can be said of hereditarians. They have no idea which specific genes cause the black white IQ gap and until they do they can't blame environmentalists for not knowing the specific environmental factors that cause the black white IQ gap.

Many hereditarians also point to trans-racial adoption studies to support there view. In these studies, members of one race are adopted by members of another race. The idea is that we can use these studies to see if difference in home life are what cause racial differences in intelligence. For instance, in the Minnesota trans-racial adoption study black children were adopted into white families. In late adolescence, it was found that blacks had lower IQ's than half black's who had lower IQ's than whites. The hereditarians frequently point to this study as a vindication of their views. But this studies sample size was very small. There were only 21 blacks. And these studies can only control for family environment. These black kids still grew up in a society that treated them a certain way because they were black. And they probably learned to expect certain things of themselves because they were black. Not to mention all the abnormality of dealing with growing up as a someone with adopted parents of another race.

And other studies have suggested different results. For instance, a study in the mid 1980's tracked one set of blacks that were adopted by black parents and another set who were adopted by white parents. It found that that the black children adopted by white parents ended up being about 15 IQ points brighter than those adopted by black parents. 15 IQ points is also the gap in IQ between whites and blacks.

Decades before the Minnesota trans-racial adoption study, a study in England was carried out in which children were placed in a highly enriched nursery environment aimed at helping the children learn well. This environment, which reflected an institutional environmental setting outside of the home, was applied to all children equally regardless of race. It produced some interesting results. As it turns out, the black children ended up having higher IQ's than the white children. Hereditarians often respond to this study by saying that the children were young, only 4 or 5, when their IQ's were measured. This is seen as problematic because genetics counts for very little of individual differences in IQ at such a young age. But this reply doesn't meet close scrutiny. For one thing, mainstream estimates state that about half of IQ variation is heritable even in childhood. And besides, by the age of 5 the vast majority of the black/white IQ gap is already present. So if genes don't matter much at age 5, so much worse for explanations that rely on genes.

The next hereditarian argument will take a little bit of background knowledge to understand and refute. People that do well on math tests also tend to do well on writing tests and tests of vocabulary. In fact, the scores people get on all the common intelligence subtests correlate with each-other. Researchers refer to a variable, G, for general intelligence, which explains this overlap in scores. Some subtests correlate with general intelligence better than others. This is called a tests g-loading. The higher the g-loading the more it correlates with general intelligence. It has also been found that those subtests which are the most influenced by genes are also the most g-loaded. Finally, it has been found that the subtests that blacks and whites have the biggest differences in scores on are also the most g-loaded and therefore the most heritable. This suggests that the black white IQ difference is probably heritable too since it correlates with the heritability of paticular tests.

Key to this argument then is the estimates of the heritability of difference IQ subtests. And just how do researchers come up with heritability estimates? The study designs are actually pretty simple and open to some pretty obvious flaws. The simplest of studies note that a trait under consideration, say intelligence, runs in families just like genes do and computes heritability based on the extent to which the trait runs in families. But this is obviously unsound: environments run in families too. You and your siblings probably had much more similar environments growing up than you and your second cousin did. So the fact that you and your siblings are probably more alike in terms of intelligence than you and your second cousin are hardly implies that genes have anything to do with it. In a slightly more sophisticated study design researchers compare identical and fraternal twins. Identical twins share essentially all of their genes and fraternal twins share half of their genes. So, the thinking goes, if identical twins are more similar in-terms of intelligence than fraternal twins are then it must be because identical twins are more similar genetically than fraternal twins are. Researchers use the difference between the similarity in identical and fraternal twins to compute heritability. Again, the problems here are obvious. People treat identical twins more similarly than they do fraternal twins. For instance, in one study identical twins were found to be over 3 times as likely as fraternal twins to report that they felt that them and their twin were “brought up as a unit” and 9 times as likely to have been confused for their twin. So this approach won't work either.

Finally, there is the gold standard of behavioral genetics research: the twin adoption studies. In these studies researchers look at how similar twins are when they are raised in different homes via adoption. These studies show that identical twins reared apart are more similar in terms of intelligence than fraternal twins are. Surely, this difference must be due to their genes! Once again, this design has serious flaws. If carried out perfectly, fraternal twins will still often have more different environments than identical twins will. This is for several reasons. For one, fraternal twins are often not of the same sex! One is a boy and one is a girl. This cannot happen in the case of identical twins. Obviously, this will bias the results to find more similarly among identical twins. Secondly, identical twins will usually have shared a placenta while in the womb. This means that they will have had a much more similar prenatal environment than fraternal twins. And this prenatal period, in which so much development occurs, could be highly important for complex traits like intelligence. And yet, the methods of behavioral genetics completely over look this key factor. Further still, these twin methods are never carried out the way they are planned. The twins often grew up for years with each-other before being separated. And when they are separated it is often to highly similar upper middle class homes. And many times they are adopted by members of the same families or people who live in the same city! These factors could produce the similarity of identical twins in terms of intelligence just as easily as genes could. Thus, behavioral geneticists don't have any sound way of measuring the heritability of an IQ subtest. So it is true that blacks and whites differ most with regards to tests that highly correlate with general intelligence. But we cannot use this fact to infer that blacks and whites differ most on those tests which are the most heritable because the estimates of heritability produced by behavior geneticists are methodologically unsound.

Another argument commonly used by hereditarians is based on a phenomena called “regression to the mean”. Regression to the mean happens when an unusually high or low value is followed by a value closer to the mean of a data set. In the case of intelligence, this would mean that really smart and really stupid people will have kids with intelligence levels that are closer to average then their own. This is a well documented fact. And, as it happens, smart blacks tend to have less intelligent kids than smart whites. Thus, blacks tend to regress to lower means than whites do. Hereditarians often note that is what would be expected on a genetic model of the difference due to genetic recombination. What they fail to note, however, is that an environmental explanation can just as easily explain this. If a black person gets lucky and avoids those environmental influences which normally depress black IQ, why on earth should we expect that their children will be just as lucky? The only reason why you would expect this is if you thought that the black white IQ gap was caused by something as simple as money which richer and smarter black parents could easily pass on to their children. But we've already discarded some simplistic explanations. Regression to the mean is consistent with a genetic or an environmental hypothesis. It doesn't tip the scale one way or another.

Another common hereditarian argument concerns brain size. Brain size has a modest correlation with intelligence meaning that people with larger brains tend to be a little smarter. And blacks have, on average, smaller brains than whites. Finally, differences in brain size among the general population are highly heritable. So brain differences between the races are probably due to genes and probably cause some of the difference in intelligence. This argument is flawed in a number of respects. First, as we have already reviewed, heritability estimates are founded on bad methods. Secondly, even if they were sound the heritability of individual differences tells us nothing about the heritability of group differences. And thirdly, two groups can differ in brain size but not differ in intelligence. For instance, men have larger brains than women but have the same average IQ. So we know that brain size differences don't always lead to intelligence differences.

The final hereditarian argument to consider runs like this: the races evolved in extremely different contexts. This caused them to evolve differences in almost all physical traits from skin color to wrist size to height. Why, then, should we not expect evolution to have effected the psychologies of the races in the same way? Isn't is just wishful thinking to propose that evolution essentially stopped at the neck? This argument is pretty good so far as arm chair speculation goes. But it isn't anything more than that and data doesn't back it up. What it proposes is that we should expect the races to have evolved different psychologies because they evolved somewhat different bodies. What this ignores is that we know, in general, that the races are the same psychologically. For instance, a huge meta analysis of studies on dozens of facets of personality found that the races were basically the same in the vast majority of personality measures used. Thus, armchair evolutionary story telling aside, we have good evidence for the view that the races developed psychologies much more similar than their bodies.

Now that we have seen that the common arguments for hereditarianism are in error, lets look at some arguments against hereditarianism. The first comes from studies of the IQ's of children from different combinations of black and white parents. According to the hereditarian view point, if you are of mixed race whether it is your mother or your father who is black should make no difference. But this isn't what is found. Quite to the contrary, studies have found that children of black mothers and white fathers score 9 IQ points lower than children of white mothers and black fathers. On an environmental view this is easy to explain: mothers matter more for child development than fathers do and the parenting practices of white mothers may be more conducive to intelligence than those of black mothers. This finding is much harder to explain on a hereditarian view.

Next, lets look at studies on racial ancestry. According to the hereditarian view, the more white genes a black person has the smarter they should be. This is not what is found. The evidence begins with two studies of racial admixture as measured by blood group analysis. Both of these studies found that white admixture did not significantly predict IQ. Similarly, self reported white ancestry among blacks has been found to not correlate with IQ. Even studies of mulattos, those who are half black and half white, have produced mixed results. The hereditarians may point to skin color as a measure of racial ancestery which does correlate with IQ. But the fact that visible markers of racial ancestry correlate with IQ while ones not so easily seen, but measured by self reported ancestry and blood group analysis, do not, suggests that the correlation between skin color and IQ is the result of differential treatment based on skin color, by ones self or others, rather than being directly the result of genetic differences.

We have now seen that the arguments in favor of hereditarianism fail while the arguments against it succeed. Now lets say a few things about what environmental factors might influence group differences in intelligence. The first thing to note is that we know beyond a shadow of a doubt that the environment has a strong enough influence on intelligence to account for the difference. In fact, the IQ's of blacks in America today are already higher than those of white Americans in the early 1940's. But the fact is that we don't know which specific environmental factors influence the black white IQ gap. It's probably a large number of factors which may include nutrition, prenatal environment, infant health, differences between black and white culture (especially concerning parenting style), and the effects of stereotypes on blacks.

In summary, there is no good reason to think that genetics plays an important role in the black white IQ gap and very good reason to think that it does not. We know that the environment is capable of producing the gap but we don't know which specific variables account for it yet. We do know that money and education are not sufficient to explain the gap and that a more subtle approach to environmental influences is therefore called for. Hopefully this will characterize future research as we come to realize what specific environmental factors account for the black white IQ gap.
Quero ser Califa no lugar do Califa

Incognitus

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Re:IQ BS
« Responder #213 em: 2015-02-24 19:47:42 »
Há um tópico sobre isto no off topic, vou mover para lá e juntá-lo.
"Nem tudo o que pode ser contado conta, e nem tudo o que conta pode ser contado.", Albert Einstein

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Incognitus

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Re:IQ BS
« Responder #214 em: 2015-02-24 19:54:41 »
Esse texto, Lark, é um lixo óbvio que começa logo com o primeiro parágrafo sobre a herdabilidade.

Ele dá um exemplo de 2 campos sujeitos a AMBIENTES diferentes. E ninguém diz que o ambiente não tem influência. Lixo e não elimina a herdabilidade. Depois o homem não cita os estudos que mostram a herdabilidade e continua por ali fora a atacar espantalhos. Lark, os estudos são sólidos, vai vê-los em vez de leres lixo.

O resto provavelmente poderia ser dito sobre o restante artigo. Mas seria irrelevante. A razão é simples, uma teoria científica derrota-se não com opiniões ou críticas, mas com uma teoria científica melhor. Que prova melhor, que correlaciona melhor. Que explica melhor. Que, devido a tudo isso, passa a ser mais usada.

Um texto destes não faz nada disso e portanto mesmo que possa ser leitura interessante e que ajude as pessoas que procuram alimentar o seu confirmation bias, ainda assim não resolve o básico: que o QI é a melhor medida ATÉ QUE SURJA UMA MELHOR AINDA.

Ninguém abandona uma teoria científica em pleno uso e com provas dadas apenas porque ela é criticada. Senão há muito que militares, universidades, etc, teriam abandonado os seus sistemas de testes. Estes só os abandonam quando algo de melhor aparece.

E acreditar noutra coisa, isso sim, é pseudo-ciência. É do mais místico que há.

-------------

E já agora, também existem teorias (e eventualmente, estudos - teria que verificar) sobre como a mãe e o pai afectam diferentemente a herdabilidade.
« Última modificação: 2015-02-24 20:00:35 por Incognitus »
"Nem tudo o que pode ser contado conta, e nem tudo o que conta pode ser contado.", Albert Einstein

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Zenith

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Re:Raça, Genética e QI
« Responder #215 em: 2015-02-24 22:06:25 »
Como o QI é medido em nºs há sempre a tendência que isso tem a mesma precisão que medidas da altura das pessoas. Premeiro não há uma métrica única, há vários testes. Se olharmos para o apendice do livro que o Inc apresentou, verifica-se que os paises para os quais são reportados bastantes testes há uma varição considerável não só entre o tipo de testes mas dentro do mesmo teste, que se aproximam ou ultrapssam os 10 pontos. Para a Itália há para um mesmo teste um mínimo de 76 e um máximo de 103.
Portanto 10 pontos é rovavelemnete a margem de erro e comparar 95 com 105 não deve significar grande coisa.
Se somarmos a isso enviezamentos que resultam da forma como os testes foram conduzidos e que podem invocar nos testados estereotipos que podem piorar os resultados quando forem negativos podemos ter incertezas para os 15 pontos, e portanto quando se diz um QI de 100 provavlemente não significa mais que um QI entre 93 e 107.
Acredito que até certo valor pessoas inteligentes tendem a ter maior sucesso (na sociedade actual). Alguém que tem uma inteligência que lhe permite comprrender bem os aspectos essenciais (talvez QI cerca de 115-125), terá mais sucesso que alguém que tem dificuldades em concluir secundário. Acima disso sucesso é mais uma questão de atitude perante a vida do que de inteligência.
Estender isso para o sucesso de paises ainda não nada de convicente.

vbm

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Re:Raça, Genética e QI
« Responder #216 em: 2015-02-24 22:19:35 »
«Ter maior sucesso»... :)
Quociente de Inteligência?

Qual o QI mais apto a 'sobreviver'
neste fórum? Por 'sobreviver',
entenda-se 'estar
e continuar
a pensar'.

:)

Incognitus

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Re:Raça, Genética e QI
« Responder #217 em: 2015-02-24 22:20:00 »
Como o QI é medido em nºs há sempre a tendência que isso tem a mesma precisão que medidas da altura das pessoas. Premeiro não há uma métrica única, há vários testes. Se olharmos para o apendice do livro que o Inc apresentou, verifica-se que os paises para os quais são reportados bastantes testes há uma varição considerável não só entre o tipo de testes mas dentro do mesmo teste, que se aproximam ou ultrapssam os 10 pontos. Para a Itália há para um mesmo teste um mínimo de 76 e um máximo de 103.
Portanto 10 pontos é rovavelemnete a margem de erro e comparar 95 com 105 não deve significar grande coisa.
Se somarmos a isso enviezamentos que resultam da forma como os testes foram conduzidos e que podem invocar nos testados estereotipos que podem piorar os resultados quando forem negativos podemos ter incertezas para os 15 pontos, e portanto quando se diz um QI de 100 provavlemente não significa mais que um QI entre 93 e 107.
Acredito que até certo valor pessoas inteligentes tendem a ter maior sucesso (na sociedade actual). Alguém que tem uma inteligência que lhe permite comprrender bem os aspectos essenciais (talvez QI cerca de 115-125), terá mais sucesso que alguém que tem dificuldades em concluir secundário. Acima disso sucesso é mais uma questão de atitude perante a vida do que de inteligência.
Estender isso para o sucesso de paises ainda não nada de convicente.

Bem, só temos que ver o que as previsões vão dar, ou o que deram no passado tendo em conta que estes são números razoavelmente estáveis em termos relativos e correlacionam com muita coisa incluindo o PIB per capita. E claro, se existir alternativa melhor, tanto melhor.

Sim, toda a variabilidades de que falas existe, mas com muitos testes acaba por ser menor. Em todo o caso em estudos sociais dificilmente se arranja melhor. Que é o ponto todo.
"Nem tudo o que pode ser contado conta, e nem tudo o que conta pode ser contado.", Albert Einstein

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Kin2010

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Re:Raça, Genética e QI
« Responder #218 em: 2015-02-24 23:22:20 »
Dilath:
procura com o google que é mais fácil.
dentro do thinkFn mas com o google
acrescenta 'site:thinkfn.com' à busca.

Inc, já que a discussão está tão acesa, não é melhor trazê-la do off-topic para aqui?
É que o tópico da Grécia qualquer dia é um chat ou forum em si mesmo.


Já procurei, e estes exemplos que dei parecem-me bem explicativos:

Podes ter heritabilidade do QI, sim, e mesmo assim a diferença entre duas populações ser totalmente ambiental / cultural. Podes ter uma espécie de planta em que a capacidade de dar bons frutos é herdável, e em condições normais há forte correlação entre genes e qualidade dos frutos; e no entanto, se fizeres duas plantações da mesma planta, ambas com a mesma proporção de bons e maus genes, e se regares muito uma plantação e não regares quase nada a outra, a 1ª vai ter esmagadoramente melhores frutos que a 2ª, e a causa será totalmente ambiental, apesar de as diferenças inter-individuais serem parcialmente genéticas.

Claro que tanto factores genéticos como ambientais contam; eu também o reconheci acima. Mesmo que a nível inter-individual o QI se correlacione com genes (o que deve ser verdade), mesmo assim podes ter 2 populações humanas em que a sua distribuição de diferentes genes que têm influência no QI é a mesma, e no entanto as 2 populações podem (não é certo) ter um QI médio bastante diferente devido totalmente a factores ambientais -- como no meu exemplo acima das plantas.







Zel

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Re:Raça, Genética e QI
« Responder #219 em: 2015-02-24 23:26:41 »
ja se zangaram todos? o lark andou a apagar posts?