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Autor Tópico: Krugman et al  (Lida 607217 vezes)

Zel

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Re: Krugman et al
« Responder #2000 em: 2015-05-10 18:34:53 »
sinto-me a pessoa mais importante da vida do lark, ehheh   :D

Incognitus

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Re: Krugman et al
« Responder #2001 em: 2015-05-10 18:42:28 »
Nos EUA o abuso da função pública é ainda mais agressivo do que em Portugal (onde nos últimos 5 anos a coisa estava a ser progressivamente normalizada). O Messiah já deixou aqui um exemplo bem claro, e existem exemplos ainda mais brutais em sub-sectores, nomeadamente os ligados a prisões (guardas prisionais, psicólogos prisionais, etc). O esquema das pensões que o Messiah descreveu está espalhado por muitos Estados e transforma praticamente todos os FPs a ele expostos em milionários na prática.

onde é que está isso?
está a parecer-me propaganda.

coloquei um gráfico elaborado pelo citibank. não me parece uma fonte suspeita.
parece que caiu o céu e o inferno?

não está correcto?
quero ver provas substanciais desse facto.
até lá, não vou dizer que é BS, porque não quero entrar nesse tom outra vez.
mas pôr em causa um gráfico do citi  - não é porque seja do citi, é porque não há razão objectiva para duvidar dele - sem apresentar a razão pela qual se entende que o gráfico mente, não é nada correcto.

suponho que o nosso troll residente tenha vindo com a trollada do costume. assim não vamos lá.

L

O Messiah descreveu a reforma de professores do sector público. É qualquer coisa assim (isto varia de Estado para Estado. Porém esta lógica é usada para muito mais FPs e em mais Estados):
* Contribuem 2% por mês para a reforma;
* Chegada a reforma, que pode ocorrer tão cedo quanto aos 50-55 anos (lembras-te do Krugman a dizer que os Americanos como um todo se reformavam tarde?) os professores recebem o que contribuiram, capitalizado, num só bolo (podem ser uns $150k-$200k);
* Nessa altura, também passam a receber a reforma do Estado (como reparas, para a qual não contribuem efectivamente, porque recebem a contribuição de volta), que corresponde praticamente ao salário dos melhores anos;
* E, algo que eu nunca ouvi falar e que se teria que confirmar várias vezes, ainda recebem uma reforma da Segurança Social dos EUA (que é fraca, o máximo é cerca de $30,000/ano ou $2,500/mês);

Se não te parece abusivo é porque nada te pareceria abusivo. E como é que poderia ser propaganda, o Messiah refere-se até a um caso que o afecta E beneficia. Mais honesto não poderia ser.

------------------

Sobre o gráfico, o Japão está errado porque o gráfico é funcionários públicos/employment e o Japão aparece para aí a 3.5%, quando a Singapura, que é o país com o menor rácio nesse campo, tem para aí 6.5%. O Japão é baixo, porém, está abaixo dos 10%, mas não é certamente 3.5%). Daí que eu diga que o Japão ali parece baseado na população total e não nos empregados.

De resto estes números variam muito de fonte para fonte, como reparaste noutro gráfico e dados que coloquei já é tudo diferente. Aquilo que constitui "funcionário público" varia muito de estudo para estudo e não é necessariamente consistente de pais para país. Além disso no caso do Japão pelo menos a forma como o sector da saúde está estruturado minimiza o número de funcionários públicos (porque as pessoas podem ir a hospitais públicos ou privados, logo existirão tendencialmente menos públicos).

Aqui uma curiosidade, na França isso também acontece o que também deveria ter o mesmo efeito. Ou seja, um número elevado de FPs/empregados na França ainda assim deverá estar a subestimar o verdadeiro peso dos FPs em França.

------------

O Neo demonstrou com dados que o sector público dos EUA está em crescimento no longo prazo. É algo basicamente indiscutível. O prazo é maior do que aquele que estás a considerar, mas a tendência é clara. A principal excepção a isto foram os anos do Clinton, em que existiu um aumento de impostos, contenção de gastos (parte devida a gridlock), crescimento económico e uma bolha accionista.

isto era uma resposta ao Neo?

Isto era uma resposta à tua resposta à minha resposta ao Neo. Podes seguir tudo nas citações. A parte do abuso é relativa às tuas duas primeiras linhas sobre "propaganda". Não, aquilo não é propaganda, é a realidade.

O resto é self-explanatory.

desculpa lá, devo estar em flash crash cognitivo, mas não vejo ali nenhuma intervenção do Neo.
só minhas e tuas.

L

Mas a tua primeira é em resposta a uma resposta minha ao Neo, que eu não citei (mas é o post imediatametne anterior ao meu). Eventualmente ficaste com a ideia que tudo era para ti. Não era. A parte do abuso, que eu depois expliquei porque parecias estar a achá-lo "propaganda" era uma resposta ao Neo e não tinha a ver com os gráficos anteriores, pessoas no Estado, etc.

Era um pormenor -- uma tendência que está a acontecer em muitos países (por exemplo também se verifica em França, na Irlanda verificava e a Irlanda atacou-o fortemente durante a austeridade, Portugal, etc. Mas curiosamente nos EUA é particularmente forte como podes ver -- pois aquele tipo de reforma equivale a uma pessoa ter o poder de compra de um milionário. Agora imagina praticamente todos os FPs a serem o equivalente a milionários devido a como o sistema está estruturado).
« Última modificação: 2015-05-10 18:42:47 por Incognitus »
"Nem tudo o que pode ser contado conta, e nem tudo o que conta pode ser contado.", Albert Einstein

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vbm

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Re: Krugman et al
« Responder #2002 em: 2015-05-10 19:27:39 »
[ ]
O resto é self-explanatory.

É sempre a parte que eu mais gosto! :)

Lark

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Re: Krugman et al
« Responder #2003 em: 2015-05-10 19:31:00 »

Mas a tua primeira é em resposta a uma resposta minha ao Neo, que eu não citei (mas é o post imediatametne anterior ao meu). Eventualmente ficaste com a ideia que tudo era para ti. Não era. A parte do abuso, que eu depois expliquei porque parecias estar a achá-lo "propaganda" era uma resposta ao Neo e não tinha a ver com os gráficos anteriores, pessoas no Estado, etc.


ora abóbora.
então se sabes que eu estou a ignorar os posts do trollus maximus...
como poderia eu saber que estavas a responder ao spammarus horribilis se não o citas?

L
Be Kind; Everyone You Meet is Fighting a Battle.
Ian Mclaren
------------------------------
If you have more than you need, build a longer table rather than a taller fence.
l6l803399
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So, first of all, let me assert my firm belief that the only thing we have to fear is...fear itself — nameless, unreasoning, unjustified terror which paralyzes needed efforts to convert retreat into advance.
Franklin D. Roosevelt

Zel

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Re: Krugman et al
« Responder #2004 em: 2015-05-10 20:03:21 »
isto de me "ignorar" da muito trabalho ao lark

neste momento devo ser a pessoa mais famosa la em casa  :D

« Última modificação: 2015-05-10 20:05:07 por Neo-Liberal »

Incognitus

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Re: Krugman et al
« Responder #2005 em: 2015-05-10 20:14:11 »

Mas a tua primeira é em resposta a uma resposta minha ao Neo, que eu não citei (mas é o post imediatametne anterior ao meu). Eventualmente ficaste com a ideia que tudo era para ti. Não era. A parte do abuso, que eu depois expliquei porque parecias estar a achá-lo "propaganda" era uma resposta ao Neo e não tinha a ver com os gráficos anteriores, pessoas no Estado, etc.


ora abóbora.
então se sabes que eu estou a ignorar os posts do trollus maximus...
como poderia eu saber que estavas a responder ao spammarus horribilis se não o citas?

L

Bem, eu respondo sem considerar quem é que está a ignorar quem, como é óbvio. Respondo e pronto.

Em todo o caso mesmo fora de qualquer guerrilha entre vocês, o conhecimento que está naquela resposta é um facto importante e muitas vezes desconhecido. Aquilo são fenómenos extremos.
"Nem tudo o que pode ser contado conta, e nem tudo o que conta pode ser contado.", Albert Einstein

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Lark

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Re: Krugman et al
« Responder #2006 em: 2015-05-11 00:56:04 »
Paul Krugman is wrong about capitalism

To many liberals, the post-WWII period in America was a time of near economic perfection. The government taxed the wealthy over 90 percent and unions became powerful organizations demanding a fair share for workers. It was a period that progressive economist Paul Krugman has always been quick to praise, writing in his 2009 book, “The Conscience of a Liberal”:

“The political and economic environment of my youth stands revealed as a paradise lost, an exceptional moment in our nation’s history.”

This period, which can be called the Keynesian era, was indeed a time of great economic growth and increased economic equality. Looking back today, it does seem like an exceptional time to be in the working class. (As long as you were white, of course.) It was an age of compromise, between the capitalist class and the working class, and perhaps the most democratic period in our liberal capitalist society. During that epoch, it certainly looked as though a form of socialism was on the horizon, with the middle class growing and forming a previously unimaginable kind of egalitarian society within capitalism.

But of course, it was not to be. By the ’70s, the economy had seemingly become diseased, with both inflation and stagnation, or what was coined stagflation. At the time, most economists were dumbfounded. In neoclassical theory, inflation and recession were opposites, they did not happen simultaneously. Hence the monetary policy of low interest rates during a recession, and high interest rates during a period of high inflation.

Today, we can pinpoint certain causes for what happened during the ’70s. The most obvious is, of course, the energy crisis, which happened in 1973, after the Organization of Petroleum Exporting Countries declared an oil embargo on America and other developed nations because of their support of Israel in the Yom Kippur War. This sparked a 400 percent increase in the price of oil, affecting the entire economy.


Another important consideration for its failure is the very nature of a Keynesian economy, which promotes low unemployment and higher wages. During the Keynesian period (1945-1970s), unions had created a strong workforce, which forced capitalists to give in to higher wages, and likely contributing to the high inflation plague. And, of course, Nixon’s dismantling of the Bretton Woods System, which had fixed the international exchange rate to the dollar, and the dollar to gold, created floating currencies, which did not help currency stability.

The stagflation crisis, along with increasing globalization, created an opening for the capitalist class, who embraced the thinking of Milton Friedman. The crisis of Keynesianism created a wave of propaganda, which ultimately resulted in the election of Ronald Reagan. At the same time, the high interest rate policies of Fed chairman Paul Volcker attacked inflation head on, and drove the American economy into a deep recession, while undermining the working class. To top this off, the major tax cuts for the wealthy and the war on unions during the Reagan presidency dismantled what was left of the Keynesian-era middle class.

The Inevitable Fall

But while all of these policies certainly sped up the destruction of America’s working class, what may have truly sealed its fate was globalization and technological progress. To see how much these phenomena hurt the working class, one only has to look at America’s employment history in manufacturing compared to finance. During the post-WWII period, manufacturing accounted for 50 percent of domestic corporate profits and 30 percent of American employment, while the financial industry accounted for 10 percent of profits, and less than 5 percent of employment. Since then, profits for these industries have reversed; manufacturing accounted for about 10 percent of profits in the early 2000s, but have since recovered to nearly 20 percent, while the financial industry reached a high of 40 percent before the financial crisis, and is closer to 30 percent today. What is even more telling is the number of jobs each industry produces: Today, manufacturing accounts for less than 10 percent, while finance still hovers around 5 percent. So while the financial industries profits have jumped, its share of employment has hardly grown at all.

America’s economy has gone through a deindustrialization period, largely replacing its domestic manufacturing with a financialization. And this has created the enormous inequality we have today. While our economy has grown steadily since the ’80s, most of the gains have gone to the top 1 percent, and China has taken over as the largest manufacturer in the world.

The Keynesian period was a time of compromise, but within a capitalist system, a compromise can only last for so long. The American middle class has since been hollowed out, while the epoch of neoliberalism created irreversible environmental damage.

So, is a return to a Keynesian compromise the answer, as economists like Krugman believe? After the financial crisis, there was a resurgence of fiscal policies that Keynes promoted to combat the recession — and there can be no doubt that the stimulus policy that America implemented helped the economy recover faster than the European economy, where rigid austerity has plagued several members of eurozone. It has also been reported that the stimulus policy erased most of the middle-class income loss in the recession. But these stimulus policies did not encourage any sort of compromise between capitalists and workers, and the globalized free market will make it quite impossible to return to the sort of compromise of the post-WWII period.

A Return to Radicalism

The problems seem to be systemic within capitalism. First of all, unions have been completely gutted by the capitalist class over the past 40 years, thanks to globalization and the aforementioned war on unions. Fifty years ago, one in three workers were union members, and today the number is just one in 10. This was natural reaction from the capitalist class, and there is little hope that unions will ever regain the strength they once possessed. But even more important, if we look at the era of great Keynesian compromise that many progressives want to emulate, evidence points to it being more of an anomaly than a natural outcome of capitalism.

Indeed, the strong middle class was most certainly a rarity of capitalism, and today our social structure is simply returning to form. While the middle class was assisted by government policies (i.e. regulation, progressive taxation, union support), a major contributing factor in Americas flourishing middle class was the second World War. As Thomas Piketty’s book “Capital in the Twenty-first Century” pointed out, the mass destruction of capital around the world created a much more even playing field than before, while also placing the United States at the forefront of the world economy. It was an era that some call the Golden Age of Capitalism; a time of global rebuilding and worldwide economic growth, supported by the American working class.

But today is a very different world. Capitalism has defeated communism and spread worldwide. The globalized economy gives all of the cards to the capitalist class, and there is no reason for them to form another Keynesian type of compromise.

The threat of communism was another reason for the capitalist system to become fairer — to weaken support for radical socialists, and provide the working class a reason to accept capitalism over the alternative. FDR was quite aware of this, as he once wrote in a letter: “No question in my mind that it is time for the country to become fairly radical for at least one generation. History shows us that where this occurs, occasionally, nations are saved from revolutions.”

The threat of a socialist overthrow of capitalism was very real during that period, when inequality and desperation were great — and a Keynesian compromise was necessary to prevent the rise of socialism within America. WWII happened to also provide great opportunity for the rise of a middle class. But that period is now long gone, as is the major ideological challenge of communism.

And if we continue to move in the same direction we have been for 40 years, which neither Barack Obama nor Hillary Clinton seem legitimately opposed to (think of the TPP), and Republicans wholeheartedly support, then our future will indeed become a new global Gilded Age.

That is, of course, unless the left becomes fairly (or fully) radical, as FDR once suggested. And the rise of Elizabeth Warren perhaps shows that there is enough discontent for a new radical movement to form. The capitalist class does not want a compromise, so why not fight it head on? It has done the same to the middle class over the past four decades, after all. Match the neoliberal movement with a neo-radical movement — a call for true democracy, rather than the plutocratic democracy that we currently have.

Rather than fighting for a return to a Keynesian compromise, the left should be considering how to create a new 21st century workers movement. Unfortunately, globalization has strengthened the capitalist class, and workers movements can no longer be purely domestic issues; they must be international. Breaking up too-big-to-fail banks and fighting for more worker control should not be off-limit goals. If the previous century has shown us anything, it is that radicalism inevitably moves the debate leftward, and society with it.

salon
Be Kind; Everyone You Meet is Fighting a Battle.
Ian Mclaren
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If you have more than you need, build a longer table rather than a taller fence.
l6l803399
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So, first of all, let me assert my firm belief that the only thing we have to fear is...fear itself — nameless, unreasoning, unjustified terror which paralyzes needed efforts to convert retreat into advance.
Franklin D. Roosevelt

Kin2010

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Re: Krugman et al
« Responder #2007 em: 2015-05-11 03:20:38 »
neste topico temos de provar que 1+1=2  :D

Mas este gráfico não contradiz o do Lark anterior sobre a % de FPs. Neste as despesas do Estado mantêm-se a variar pouco desde 1980 para cá. No gráfico do Lark a % de FPs também varia pouco desde 1980 para cá.

contradiz a ideia que o lark queria provar que o sector publico nao eh grande e a crescer (ve a msg dele em que escreve "ai, o sector público é enorme... que horror...")
nao disse que o grafico do lark esta errado ate porque os FPs ganham muito mais do que deviam e porque muitos servicos do estado estao em outsourcing.
simplesmente aquele grafico nao funciona para demonstrar nada e eh enganoso. ja o meu serve.

Mesmo no teu gráfico, o rácio da despesa pública quase estagna de 1980 para cá.

Lark

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Re: Krugman et al
« Responder #2008 em: 2015-05-11 04:07:54 »
Paul Krugman is wrong about capitalism


só para ajudar a a esclarecer as cabecinhas mais confusas sobre o tema 'esquerda'.
têm considerado o krugman como um notório esquerdista, um keynesianista.
o krugman, assim como o keynes são sociais-liberais, do centro esquerda mais banal e fofinho que existe.

o texto que transcrevi acima é que se pode considerar esquerda esquerda. esquerda radical. mas não comunista ou extrema esquerda, que estão ainda mais à esquerda. esquerda radical. é uma esquerda menos fofinha que a do krugman. e por acaso cada vez estou a tender mais para ela.

só para dar uma pequena explanação do ecosistema canhoto.

L
« Última modificação: 2015-05-11 04:16:31 por Lark »
Be Kind; Everyone You Meet is Fighting a Battle.
Ian Mclaren
------------------------------
If you have more than you need, build a longer table rather than a taller fence.
l6l803399
-------------------------------------------
So, first of all, let me assert my firm belief that the only thing we have to fear is...fear itself — nameless, unreasoning, unjustified terror which paralyzes needed efforts to convert retreat into advance.
Franklin D. Roosevelt

Incognitus

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Re: Krugman et al
« Responder #2009 em: 2015-05-11 04:24:57 »
Esse texto tem uma coisa que parece igual ao vbm a dizer que a Alemanha isto, e a Grécia aquilo.
 
Essa coisa é apresentar os capitalistas como sendo uma espécie de classe com uma agenda. Os capitalistas são na sua maioria indivíduos a actuar com base nos seus próprios incentivos, motivações, etc. Não são uma coisa coordenada. São milhões de indivíduos diferentes em milhões de situações diferentes. Muitos foram até empregados de outras empresas e foi daí a génese das suas empresas. Outros vieram de áreas completamente descorrelacionadas, por exemplo o fundador da Alibaba era um professor de Inglês.
 
Certamente, tentam pagar o mínimo possível pelos serviços e bens de que necessitam para produzir os seus próprios serviços e bens. Como quase todas as pessoas em quase todas as circunstâncias ... mas não existe uma agenda coordenada, ainda que possam defender coisas em comum, como:
* Medidas que lhes reduzam o risco, logo maior liberdade para contratar e despedir;
* Medidas que lhes aumentem os lucros e reduzam os custos, logo menores impostos, menos regras, menos OU MAIS barreiras e regulamentação (menos se quiserem concorrer, mais se quiserem impedir outros de o fazerem).
 
Mas estas coisas não acontecem devido a uma agenda centralizada, e sim porque são aspirações naturais para a situação em que se encontram. Tal como quando eram empregados (os que eram), seriam certamente por melhores salários e menor possibilidade de despedimento. Isto mesmo que como empregados não tivessem uma agenda centralizada.
 
---------
 
Onde PODE existir uma coordenação, é em sectores gigantescos em que poucos players controlam uma parte muito grande do mercado. Como o sector financeiro.
 
Daí que tivesse sido importante quebrar os TBTF, deixá-los falhar (sem cessarem funções ou se perderem depósitos), queimar accionistas, alguns credores, etc. Mas o poder político não o permitiu na esmagadora maioria dos casos. Os TBTF só sairam mais reforçados da intervenção politica ...
« Última modificação: 2015-05-11 04:30:15 por Incognitus »
"Nem tudo o que pode ser contado conta, e nem tudo o que conta pode ser contado.", Albert Einstein

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Lark

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Re: Krugman et al
« Responder #2010 em: 2015-05-11 05:51:25 »
Esse texto tem uma coisa que parece igual ao vbm a dizer que a Alemanha isto, e a Grécia aquilo.
 
Essa coisa é apresentar os capitalistas como sendo uma espécie de classe com uma agenda. Os capitalistas são na sua maioria indivíduos a actuar com base nos seus próprios incentivos, motivações, etc. Não são uma coisa coordenada. São milhões de indivíduos diferentes em milhões de situações diferentes. Muitos foram até empregados de outras empresas e foi daí a génese das suas empresas. Outros vieram de áreas completamente descorrelacionadas, por exemplo o fundador da Alibaba era um professor de Inglês.
 
Certamente, tentam pagar o mínimo possível pelos serviços e bens de que necessitam para produzir os seus próprios serviços e bens. Como quase todas as pessoas em quase todas as circunstâncias ... mas não existe uma agenda coordenada, ainda que possam defender coisas em comum, como:
* Medidas que lhes reduzam o risco, logo maior liberdade para contratar e despedir;
* Medidas que lhes aumentem os lucros e reduzam os custos, logo menores impostos, menos regras, menos OU MAIS barreiras e regulamentação (menos se quiserem concorrer, mais se quiserem impedir outros de o fazerem).
 
Mas estas coisas não acontecem devido a uma agenda centralizada, e sim porque são aspirações naturais para a situação em que se encontram. Tal como quando eram empregados (os que eram), seriam certamente por melhores salários e menor possibilidade de despedimento. Isto mesmo que como empregados não tivessem uma agenda centralizada.
 
---------
 
Onde PODE existir uma coordenação, é em sectores gigantescos em que poucos players controlam uma parte muito grande do mercado. Como o sector financeiro.
 
Daí que tivesse sido importante quebrar os TBTF, deixá-los falhar (sem cessarem funções ou se perderem depósitos), queimar accionistas, alguns credores, etc. Mas o poder político não o permitiu na esmagadora maioria dos casos. Os TBTF só sairam mais reforçados da intervenção politica ...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Chamber_of_Commerce

só um exemplozinho pequenino.
claro que há interesses comuns e coordenação para o seu atingimento. é uma classe pequena, fácil de coordenar.

é ser ingénuo pensar que só por acaso as acções parecem coordenadas.
sempre assim foi, é e será.

L
« Última modificação: 2015-05-11 05:52:12 por Lark »
Be Kind; Everyone You Meet is Fighting a Battle.
Ian Mclaren
------------------------------
If you have more than you need, build a longer table rather than a taller fence.
l6l803399
-------------------------------------------
So, first of all, let me assert my firm belief that the only thing we have to fear is...fear itself — nameless, unreasoning, unjustified terror which paralyzes needed efforts to convert retreat into advance.
Franklin D. Roosevelt

Zel

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Re: Krugman et al
« Responder #2011 em: 2015-05-11 07:59:45 »
neste topico temos de provar que 1+1=2  :D

Mas este gráfico não contradiz o do Lark anterior sobre a % de FPs. Neste as despesas do Estado mantêm-se a variar pouco desde 1980 para cá. No gráfico do Lark a % de FPs também varia pouco desde 1980 para cá.

contradiz a ideia que o lark queria provar que o sector publico nao eh grande e a crescer (ve a msg dele em que escreve "ai, o sector público é enorme... que horror...")
nao disse que o grafico do lark esta errado ate porque os FPs ganham muito mais do que deviam e porque muitos servicos do estado estao em outsourcing.
simplesmente aquele grafico nao funciona para demonstrar nada e eh enganoso. ja o meu serve.

Mesmo no teu gráfico, o rácio da despesa pública quase estagna de 1980 para cá.

nao esta no grafico mas em 2014 ja esta nos 41%
dos 30% para os 41% eh estagnacao ? eh um aumento de mais de 33%
« Última modificação: 2015-05-11 08:03:06 por Neo-Liberal »

Lark

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Re: Krugman et al
« Responder #2012 em: 2015-05-14 00:57:40 »
And, I’m on the ground in England, jet-lagged but maybe ready to resume blogging. For today, just a quick thought inspired by two seemingly unrelated comments.

First, in a postmortem on the UK election Simon Wren-Lewis notes one failure of Labour in particular: it made no effort at all to fight the false narrative of Blair-Brown profligacy. Wren-Lewis writes,

I suspect within the Labour hierarchy the view was to look forward rather than go over the past, but you cannot abandon the writing of history to your opponents.

Meanwhile, Brian Beutler notes the very different ways Hillary Clinton and Jeb Bush are dealing with the legacies of the presidents who bore their surnames. Bill Clinton presided over an era of peace and immense prosperity; nonetheless, Hillary is breaking with some of his policy legacy, on issues from trade and financial regulation to criminal justice. George W. Bush presided over utter disaster on all fronts; nonetheless, Jeb is adopting the same policies and even turning to the same advisers.

These are, I think, related stories. Progressives tend to focus on the future, on what we do now; they are also, by inclination, open-minded and if anything eager to show their flexibility by changing their doctrine in the face of evidence. Conservatives cling to what they imagine to be eternal verities, and fiercely defend their legends.

In policy terms the progressive instinct is surely superior. It’s actually quite horrifying, if you think about it, to hear Republican contenders for president unveil their big ideas, which are to slash taxes on rich people, deregulate banks, and bomb or invade countries we don’t like. What could go wrong?

But I’m with Wren-Lewis here: progressives are much too willing to cede history to the other side. Legends about the past matter. Really bad economics flourishes in part because Republicans constantly extol the Reagan record, while Democrats rarely mention how shabby that record was compared with the growth in jobs and incomes under Clinton. The combination of lies, incompetence, and corruption that made the Iraq venture the moral and policy disaster it was should not be allowed to slip into the mists.

And it’s not just an American issue. Europe’s problems are made significantly worse by the selectivity of German historical memory, in which the 1923 inflation looms large but the Brüning deflation of 1930-32, which actually led directly to the fall of Weimar and the rise of you-know-who, has been sent down the memory hole.

There’s a reason conservatives constantly publish books and articles glorifying Harding and Coolidge while sliming FDR; there’s a reason they’re still running against Jimmy Carter; and there’s a reason they’re doing their best to rehabilitate W. And progressives need to fight back.



krugman
« Última modificação: 2015-05-14 00:59:46 por Lark »
Be Kind; Everyone You Meet is Fighting a Battle.
Ian Mclaren
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If you have more than you need, build a longer table rather than a taller fence.
l6l803399
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So, first of all, let me assert my firm belief that the only thing we have to fear is...fear itself — nameless, unreasoning, unjustified terror which paralyzes needed efforts to convert retreat into advance.
Franklin D. Roosevelt

Lark

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Re: Krugman et al
« Responder #2013 em: 2015-05-14 02:01:56 »
By Paul Krugman

Last year the vampires of finance bought themselves a Congress. I know it's not nice to call them that, but I have my reasons, which I'll explain in a bit.

For now, however, let's just note that these days Wall Street, which used to split its support between the parties, overwhelmingly favors the GOP.

And the Republicans who came to power this year are returning the favor by trying to kill Dodd-Frank, the financial reform enacted in 2010.

And why must Dodd-Frank die? Because it's working.

This statement may surprise progressives who believe that nothing significant has been done to rein in runaway bankers.

And it's true both that reform fell well short of what we really should have done and that it hasn't yielded obvious, measurable triumphs like the gains in insurance thanks to Obamacare.


But Wall Street hates reform for a reason, and a closer look shows why.

For one thing, the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau - the brainchild of Sen. Elizabeth Warren - is, by all accounts, having a major chilling effect on abusive lending practices.

And early indications are that enhanced regulation of financial derivatives - which played a major role in the 2008 crisis - is having similar effects, increasing transparency and reducing the profits of middlemen.

What about the problem of financial industry structure, sometimes oversimplified with the phrase "too big to fail"? There, too, Dodd-Frank seems to be yielding real results, in fact, more than many supporters expected.

As I've just suggested, too big to fail doesn't quite get at the problem here. What was really lethal was the interaction between size and complexity.

Financial institutions had become chimeras: part bank, part hedge fund, part insurance company, and so on.

This complexity let them evade regulation, yet be rescued from the consequences when their bets went bad. And bankers' ability to have it both ways helped set America up for disaster.

Dodd-Frank addressed this problem by letting regulators subject "systemically important" financial institutions to extra regulation, and seize control of such institutions at times of crisis, as opposed to simply bailing them out.

And it required that financial institutions in general put up more capital, reducing both their incentive to take excessive risks and the chance that risk-taking would lead to bankruptcy.

All of this seems to be working: "Shadow banking," which created bank-type risks while evading bank-type regulation, is in retreat. You can see this in cases like that of General Electric, a manufacturing firm that turned itself into a financial wheeler-dealer, but is now trying to return to its roots.

You can also see it in the overall numbers, where conventional banking - which is to say, banking subject to relatively strong regulation - has made a comeback. Evading the rules, it seems, isn't as appealing as it used to be.

But the vampires are fighting back.

OK, why do I call them that? Not because they drain the economy of its lifeblood, although they do: there's a lot of evidence that oversize, overpaid financial industries - like ours - hurt economic growth and stability.

Even the International Monetary Fund agrees.

But what really makes the word apt in this context is that the enemies of reform can't withstand sunlight. Open defenses of Wall Street's right to go back to its old ways are hard to find.

When right-wing think tanks do try to claim that regulation is a bad thing that will hurt the economy, their hearts don't seem to be in it. For example, the latest such "study", from the American Action Forum, runs to all of four pages, and even its author, the economist Douglas Holtz-Eakin, sounds embarrassed about his work.

What you mostly get, instead, is slavery-is-freedom claims that reform actually empowers the bad guys: for example, that regulating too-big-and-complex-to-fail institutions is somehow doing wheeler-dealers a favor, claims belied by the desperate efforts of such institutions to avoid the "systemically important" designation.

The point is that almost nobody wants to be seen as a bought and paid-for servant of the financial industry, least of all those who really are exactly that.

And this in turn means that so far, at least, the vampires are getting a lot less than they expected for their money. Republicans would love to undo Dodd-Frank, but they are, rightly, afraid of the glare of publicity that defenders of reform like Warren - who inspires a remarkable amount of fear in the unrighteous - would shine on their efforts.

Does this mean that all is well on the financial front? Of course not. Dodd-Frank is much better than nothing, but far from being all we need. And the vampires are still lurking in their coffins, waiting to strike again.

But things could be worse.

Krugman
Be Kind; Everyone You Meet is Fighting a Battle.
Ian Mclaren
------------------------------
If you have more than you need, build a longer table rather than a taller fence.
l6l803399
-------------------------------------------
So, first of all, let me assert my firm belief that the only thing we have to fear is...fear itself — nameless, unreasoning, unjustified terror which paralyzes needed efforts to convert retreat into advance.
Franklin D. Roosevelt

Zel

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Re: Krugman et al
« Responder #2014 em: 2015-05-15 00:54:31 »
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/videos/2015-05-14/is-paul-krugman-wrong-on-austerity

Niall Ferguson: Paul Krugman Is Wrong About Austerity

Stanford University Hoover Institution Senior Fellow Niall Ferguson discusses why he thinks economist Paul Krugman is wrong on austerity and bank bailouts.

Thunder

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Re: Krugman et al
« Responder #2015 em: 2015-05-15 18:16:26 »
Não sabia bem onde colocar esta notícia, mas como neste tópico fala-se bastante em banksters acho que não fica mal....

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-05-13/barclays-executive-in-libor-scandal-to-head-asia-pacific-markets

"Mark Dearlove, a Barclays Plc executive who was involved in the manipulation of the London interbank offered rate, was named as the U.K. lender’s head of markets for Asia-Pacific."

Business as usual ....
« Última modificação: 2015-05-15 18:16:51 por Thunder »
Nullius in Verba
Divide et Impera
Não há almoços grátis
Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored
Bulls make money, bears make money.... pigs get slaughtered

Zel

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Re: Krugman et al
« Responder #2016 em: 2015-05-15 18:25:07 »
Não sabia bem onde colocar esta notícia, mas como neste tópico fala-se bastante em banksters acho que não fica mal....

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-05-13/barclays-executive-in-libor-scandal-to-head-asia-pacific-markets

"Mark Dearlove, a Barclays Plc executive who was involved in the manipulation of the London interbank offered rate, was named as the U.K. lender’s head of markets for Asia-Pacific."

Business as usual ....


nao podem mandar a mensagem errada para os traders que ainda nao foram apanhados

Haroun Al Poussah

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Re: Krugman et al
« Responder #2017 em: 2015-05-15 20:31:00 »
Paul Krugman - New York Times Blog
 
Via Mark Thoma, today in liberal fascism: Apparently I’m part of the liberal speech police, blocking debate on important subjects, because I criticized Alan Greenspan for planning to headline a goldbug conference taking place next to the Fed’s annual Jackson Hole event. And it’s true — I used vicious, undemocratic tactics like calling attention to Greenspan’s record of bad predictions. I even used sarcasm and ridicule. And you know who else used sarcasm and ridicule? Hitler The Piranha Brothers.

It’s still quite amazing to see how thin-skinned such people are, their outraged cries of ill-treatment when faced with any kind of pushback (and most of all, of course, anyone who makes them look silly.) But there’s an extra bonus from this article: confirmation of just how bad this particular group is on economic substance, and how truly inappropriate Greenspan’s planned participation was.

For the author of the article declares Greenspan obviously correct to issue dire warnings about Fed policies — after all, the dollar’s value was dropping in terms of gold, which he takes to be self-evidently a sign of big trouble.

But the Fed doesn’t care about the price of gold, and its indifference has been justified by history. Gold has been anything but a stable store of value: if you bought gold in the late 1970s the real value of your investment fell 60 percent over the next few years. Nor has gold been a predictor of future inflation — actually, even in the 70s it was a lagging, not leading, indicator, and in recent years it was telling us nothing at all about inflation, past or future.

So Greenspan was planning to talk to a bunch of monetary cranks with a sideline in anti-gay activism (or maybe it’s the other way around). To do so is, of course, his right; to criticize him for his decision, and make fun of his bad judgment, is mine.



krugman
« Última modificação: 2015-05-15 20:48:24 por Haroun Al Poussah »
Il faut entendre la macro, mon bon Iznogoud
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it's at the point now where if u want ur mass shooting to have media coverage u have to hope there isn't another mass shooting that day
chuuch ‏@ch000ch
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The severity of the itch is inversely proportional to the reach.
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Haroun Al Poussah

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Re: Krugman et al
« Responder #2018 em: 2015-05-15 20:35:40 »
sarcasm: that terrible terrible weapon, sometimes equated to insult

sarcasm

L
« Última modificação: 2015-05-15 20:41:24 por Haroun Al Poussah »
Il faut entendre la macro, mon bon Iznogoud
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it's at the point now where if u want ur mass shooting to have media coverage u have to hope there isn't another mass shooting that day
chuuch ‏@ch000ch
-----------------------------------------
The severity of the itch is inversely proportional to the reach.
CantDoIt ‏@CantDoIt

Haroun Al Poussah

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Re: Krugman et al
« Responder #2019 em: 2015-05-15 20:39:59 »
what a terrible, terrible man, this krugman character...

A Liberal Speech Cop Targets Alan Greenspan
The former Fed chairman drops out of a monetary conference after he’s assailed by Paul Krugman.
By SETH LIPSKY


To the list of questions the left has sought to place off limits to open debate—global warming, same-sex marriage, campaign finance, abortion—add a startling new topic: monetary reform. And what a scalp has just been claimed.

Alan Greenspan, who was chairman of the Federal Reserve for nearly two decades, has pulled out of a conference this summer on monetary reform. He did so May 8, two days after the New York Times published a blog post by Paul Krugman labeling Mr. Greenspan the Fed’s “worst ex-chairman ever.”

Mr. Krugman was set off by word that Mr. Greenspan had been billed as one of the speakers for a counter-conference that is set to take place in Jackson Hole, Wyo., in late August, as the Federal Reserve holds its annual retreat there. Mr. Greenspan declined to comment on why he has withdrawn, but the conference’s sponsor, the American Principles Project, confirmed to me that he did so in the wake of Mr. Krugman’s attack.

The conferees plan to continue nonetheless, and just as Congress itself is fermenting on the need to reform the way monetary policy is made. And so the mightiest central bank in the world will be in one conference center, while its critics will gather in another venue down the street. The proceedings of the reformers will be open to the public: a classic teaching moment.

Yet it horrifies Mr. Krugman, who reacted by attacking Mr. Greenspan personally. He derided the former Fed chairman for worrying about inflation, for generally trusting markets, and for voicing opinions on the central bank he once led.

Mr. Krugman also attacked the American Principles Project, whose chairman is a conservative Catholic, Sean Fieler. “The group,” he writes, “combines social conservatism—it’s anti-gay-marriage, anti-abortion rights, and pro-‘religious liberty’—with goldbug economic doctrine.”

Adds Mr. Krugman: “The second half of this agenda may be appealing to Greenspan, a former Ayn Rand intimate—as Paul Samuelson remarked, ‘You can take the boy out of the cult but you can’t take the cult out of the boy.’ But the anti-gay stuff? And helping these people attack his former colleagues?”

“These people”? The American Principles Project was founded by Robert P. George, a distinguished professor at Princeton, at whose Woodrow Wilson School Mr. Krugman is listed as a professor. Mr. George is vice chairman of the U.S. Commission on International Religious Freedom and a former member of the Civil Rights Commission.

Also a religious Catholic, Mr. George has been praised by Supreme Court Justice Elena Kagan for his “profound and enduring integrity.” Where does the Times come off issuing a post referring to one of his institutions as “these people” and not only attacking it for being “pro-‘religious liberty,’ ” but putting that phrase in scare quotes?

The fact is that Mr. Krugman, who has devoted his column inches to plumping for inflation, is scared of critics who comprehend that there is a moral dimension to the question of money.

The Nobel laureate must have been horrified in September 2010 when, as the value of the dollar was first plunging below a 1,250th of an ounce of gold, Mr. Greenspan warned at the Council on Foreign Relations that “fiat money has no place to go but gold.” Mr. Greenspan is, after all, the author of an essay titled “Gold and Economic Freedom.”

Mr. Krugman likes to fault Mr. Greenspan first for failing to foresee the housing bubble and then for worrying about inflation. He contents himself with the quiescence of the consumer-price index while ignoring asset inflation. Mr. Krugman has emerged as an apologist for the Fed and for Mr. Greenspan’s successor, Ben Bernanke, on whose watch the value of the dollar plunged a staggering 53.1% against gold. That’s the second steepest plunge under any Fed chairman; the dollar shed 80.1% of its value under the hapless Arthur Burns from 1970-78.

Burns was chairman when we plunged into the age of fiat money after President Nixon closed the gold window that had operated under the postwar Bretton Woods system. How has that worked out? Between 1948 and 1971, unemployment averaged 4.7%. Since 1971 it has averaged 6.4%. Is there a link between high unemployment and fiat money?

Meanwhile, Congress is considering measures to tighten the Fed’s leash: a bill that would require the Fed to publish a monetary rule to guide its policy; another bill to audit the Fed, so Congress can look into the formation of monetary policy; another to end Humphrey-Hawkins, the 1978 law that gave the Fed a mandate to work for full employment. Lawmakers are also considering establishing a monetary commission to explore ending the age of fiat money.

A year ago Paul Volcker, the Fed chairman who conquered inflation in the 1980s, addressed a conference on Bretton Woods. He didn’t write a prescription, but he didn’t deny the disease either. “By now,” he said, “I think we can agree that the absence of an official, rules-based, cooperatively managed monetary system has not been a great success.”

Good for him. Maybe Mr. Volcker will get invited to join the American Principles Project event in Jackson Hole. One thing we learned about him in the 1980s, when even some of the supply-siders were screaming about his attack on inflation, is that he knows how to stand his ground. He would not be scared off by the likes of Paul Krugman.

wsj
Il faut entendre la macro, mon bon Iznogoud
---------------------------------------------------
it's at the point now where if u want ur mass shooting to have media coverage u have to hope there isn't another mass shooting that day
chuuch ‏@ch000ch
-----------------------------------------
The severity of the itch is inversely proportional to the reach.
CantDoIt ‏@CantDoIt