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Incognitus

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Re: Investir na Grécia
« Responder #3460 em: 2015-05-30 18:17:44 »
Mesmo que fosse, e não é, ainda assim não justificaria em nada aquele gráfico.
"Nem tudo o que pode ser contado conta, e nem tudo o que conta pode ser contado.", Albert Einstein

Incognitus, www.thinkfn.com

D. Antunes

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Re: Investir na Grécia
« Responder #3461 em: 2015-05-30 23:25:45 »
Sim, parece que a distribuição é má. Mas, no outro extremo, situações como a da Austrália devem ser devidas a sistemas de contribuição para a reforma privados e seguros privados de saúde. Só assim se justifica que os mais desafogados recebam tão pouco do estado.
“Price is what you pay. Value is what you get.”
“In the short run the market is a voting machine. In the long run, it’s a weighting machine."
Warren Buffett

“O bom senso é a coisa do mundo mais bem distribuída: todos pensamos tê-lo em tal medida que até os mais difíceis de contentar nas outras coisas não costumam desejar mais bom senso do que aquele que têm."
René Descartes

D. Antunes

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Re: Investir na Grécia
« Responder #3462 em: 2015-05-30 23:27:45 »
Músicas na berra:

Should I Stay or Should I Go"

“Wake me up before Grécia go go”

http://economico.sapo.pt/noticias/wake-me-up-before-grecia-go-go_219762.html
“Price is what you pay. Value is what you get.”
“In the short run the market is a voting machine. In the long run, it’s a weighting machine."
Warren Buffett

“O bom senso é a coisa do mundo mais bem distribuída: todos pensamos tê-lo em tal medida que até os mais difíceis de contentar nas outras coisas não costumam desejar mais bom senso do que aquele que têm."
René Descartes

Zark

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Re: Investir na Grécia
« Responder #3463 em: 2015-05-30 23:55:56 »
Sim, parece que a distribuição é má. Mas, no outro extremo, situações como a da Austrália devem ser devidas a sistemas de contribuição para a reforma privados e seguros privados de saúde. Só assim se justifica que os mais desafogados recebam tão pouco do estado.

os sistemas sociais australianos são dos mais avançados que há. mais que os escandinavos. são eles e o neo-zelandeses.
não há ali complementaruidade com sistemas privados . é assimmesmo de raiz acho que.

Z
If begging should unfortunately be your destiny, knock only at the large gates.

Arabian Proverb
--------------------------------------------------
You've got to know when to hold 'em
Know when to fold 'em
Know when to walk away
And know when to run
You never count your money
When you're sittin' at the table
There'll be time enough for countin'
When the dealin's done

Kenny Rogers – The Gambler
------------------------------------------
It is not enough to be busy; so are the ants. The question is: What are we busy about?
Henry David Thoreau

Zark

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Re: Investir na Grécia
« Responder #3464 em: 2015-05-31 00:50:24 »
Larry Summers has economic fix for Europe

Larry Summers, who was Bill Clinton's finance minister and Barack Obama's chief economic advisor, doesn't believe austerity can fix the eurozone. Instead, he proposes a massive infrastructure spending push.

Speaking to a full house at the American Academy's elegant villa on the Wannsee lakeshore in southwest Berlin, Summers said massive public investment was the best medicine for the ailing eurozone economy.

"There's a compelling case for expanded public investment in many parts of Europe," said Summers, who returned to an economics professorship at Harvard University after leaving the Obama administration at the end of 2010.

The benefits of pouring public money into infrastructure would include more jobs and stronger demand, an expansion in Europe's productive capacity, and a reduced burden on the next generation.

Summers said that research by the International Monetary Fund (IMF) had shown that "appropriate public investment" leads to a lower public debt-to-GDP ratio after five years than occurs in the absence of such investment. In other words: Done right, infrastructure investment more than pays for itself.

Long-term stagnation

Summers attributed weak economic growth and very low interest rates in Europe and other developed countries to "secular stagnation" - which he described as a chronic excess of savings over investment.

Several factors - including rising inequality and cheaper technology, among others - had led to a situation where wealthy savers had a great deal of money available to invest, but too few profitable projects to invest in. The result: Chronically low interest rates and weak GDP growth.

That's why governments should step in to soak up excess savings and put them to good use by building infrastructure, Summers argued.

Easy money

"With Germany able to borrow money for 10 years at 50 basis points [half a percent per annum], it makes eminent sense for the government to borrow and spend more in the interests of its citizens," he said, adding that other European countries also had room to invest: "Even Italy and Spain currently pay just 2 percent interest on sovereign debt - that's less than the US pays."

Summers says investment is key to overcoming the eurozone crisis

Summers expressed support for the ECB's loose monetary policy. "The risk of deflation is much greater than any risk of inflation," he said, adding it was essential for the ECB to "do what's necessary to achieve 2-percent inflation in order to restore growth."

Structural reforms: The details matter

German Finance Minister Wolfgang Schäuble and other eurozone economic policymakers have pushed hard for governments of high-unemployment regions to make "structural reforms" in order to "regain competitiveness" - by emulating the tough "Agenda 2010" labor market reforms Germany made in the early 2000s.

The reform package prioritizes cutbacks in government spending and structural reforms aimed at pushing wages down in high-unemployment regions.
Lower wages are meant to improve "competitiveness" by reducing the prices of products and services, thereby boosting exports. Government spending cutbacks are supposed to signal that taxes and interest rates will remain low, thereby boosting "business confidence" and motivating private investors to invest in new, job-generating ventures.

It's a package that has been called "growth-oriented consolidation policy" by its supporters. In addition to Wolfgang Schäuble, these include several other northern European finance ministers and many German economists - but not Larry Summers.

Germany's export surplus can't be emulated

Summers conceded that the Agenda 2010 reforms had been successful in transforming Germany into the most competitive economy in Europe - but argued the Agenda was "not a viable template for other eurozone countries."
 
Giant EU investment scheme (studio talk)

The reason: "Reforms that suppress labor costs merely tend to shift expenditures from one country to another," in a zero-sum beggar-thy-neighbor game. Undercutting neighbors on wages leads to trade surpluses in one country and corresponding trade deficits in another, but no growth in total employment or GDP.

"There's a clear case for proper structural reforms, but I think it's a mistake to overestimate their potential impact," Summers said. "The biggest structural reform Europe could ever make was to create a single market - and we already have that."

Summers argued in favor of reforms that "increase growth and total investment on a global basis" by encouraging private investment, reducing corruption, improving education and skills, and making it easier to form new businesses.

Hiring and firing

"Flexibilization" of labor markets - making it easier and cheaper to hire and fire workers - is another favorite theme for European policymakers, but Summers warned against expecting too much from that, either.

Even though it's notoriously difficult to fire workers in France, whereas US job markets are famously flexible, Summers said, 15 percent of US men of prime working age - 25 to 55 years old - were unemployed in 2014, compared to just 12 percent in France.

"Excessive job security isn't good, but labor flexibility isn't all it's cracked up to be," he said.

fonte
If begging should unfortunately be your destiny, knock only at the large gates.

Arabian Proverb
--------------------------------------------------
You've got to know when to hold 'em
Know when to fold 'em
Know when to walk away
And know when to run
You never count your money
When you're sittin' at the table
There'll be time enough for countin'
When the dealin's done

Kenny Rogers – The Gambler
------------------------------------------
It is not enough to be busy; so are the ants. The question is: What are we busy about?
Henry David Thoreau

Zark

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Re: Investir na Grécia
« Responder #3465 em: 2015-06-01 00:24:38 »
Can U.S. Bring an End to Greek Drama?

The U.S. government has taken care over the past four months to stay out of the Greek crisis, at least in public. President Barack Obama antagonized many European governments back in February when he warned that “you cannot keep on squeezing countries that are in the midst of depression,” which was widely interpreted as endorsing the new Greek government’s leftist program. Since then, the administration had largely kept its counsel private.

But that changed last week when U.S. Treasury Secretary Jacob Lew, speaking in London and at a meeting of finance chiefs from the Group of Seven leading nations in Dresden, Germany, urged Greece and its creditors to show more flexibility, warning both sides that “brinkmanship is a dangerous thing when it only takes one accident.”

Mr. Lew’s intervention shows how serious the crisis has become. Despite repeated assurances from Athens that a deal is close, nobody at the G-7 summit thought this remotely true. Sure, progress has been made, but mostly on less controversial issues such as strengthening the independence of the tax-collection authority.

But on the big issues that have held up aid to Greece since last summer—including overhauls to its pension system, changes to its labor market, and agreements on its fiscal targets—Greece and its creditors remain miles apart.

Meanwhile, the clock is ticking. It isn’t clear whether Athens can find the cash to repay $1.6 billion owed to the International Monetary Fund this month, the first installment of which is due on Friday. The two sides will need to agree on a deal in the next few days to allow time to jump through the legal hoops required for funds to be disbursed before the bailout program expires at the end of June.

Will Mr. Lew’s intervention help? No, according to some senior EU officials. They fear his comments will harden positions on both sides: Eurozone governments won’t appreciate the U.S. interfering in something that isn’t its business. “If the U.S. wants to make Greece its business, it should put its own money on the table,” says one official.


More importantly, they fear that Mr. Lew risks feeding what they say is the delusion that Athens enjoys protected status because of its geopolitical importance, and that U.S. protections will ensure its brinkmanship pays off.

European officials also fear that the U.S. administration underestimates the negative consequences of a eurozone surrender to Greek demands, since not only will this push up Greece’s short- and long-term funding needs to politically unacceptable levels, but also because tearing up eurozone rules could put the long-term stability of the currency union at risk.

U.S. officials appear sensitive to these criticisms. Although Mr. Lew has called for both sides to show flexibility, he has also made clear in public and in private, including in two conversations with Greek Prime Minister Alexis Tsipras, that the first move must come from the Greek side, according to someone familiar with the discussions: “Job No. 1 is for Athens to roll up its sleeves and come forward with meaningful reforms,” this person said.

Nor will the Treasury pressure the eurozone to do a deal if the Greeks are intransigent or reject necessary reforms.

The problem is that it isn’t just Greece and its creditors that can’t agree on what are the necessary reforms; the creditors appear divided too.

The IMF is insisting on pension reforms that the European Commission, or at least some commission officials, agrees with Athens are likely to prove recessionary and therefore will deepen Greece’s short and long-term funding needs.

In contrast, the IMF believes that these are essential to put Greece’s finances on a sustainable footing and meet the demanding hurdle required under IMF rules for disbursing its cash. Without these changes, the IMF believes that the eurozone will need to promise Greece substantial short-term funding and long-term debt relief.

So far, the IMF is standing firm. It was widely criticized for its optimistic assessment of Greece’s debt sustainability in 2010 and is determined not to repeat the same mistake. It argues that breaking its rules for Greece would undermine its ability to force other debtor countries to take unpopular measures, putting its own credibility at stake.

Yet the IMF’s endorsement of any deal is essential to many eurozone governments to provide political cover to allow them to disburse their taxpayers’ cash in fresh aid for Greece.

Ultimately, the only way out of this impasse is likely to be a grand bargain, whereby Athens agrees to implement the reforms that the IMF is demanding in return for a lower deficit target and a commitment from eurozone governments that they will provide the short-term funding and long-term debt relief needed to satisfy the IMF that Greece’s debt will be put on a sustainable footing.

The question is whether this grand bargain can be reached in time for Athens to receive the cash needed to avoid an accidental default.

Indeed, this is what appears to be uppermost in the minds of U.S. officials—and the chief point of difference with their eurozone counterparts. While neither side is complacent about the consequences of a default, U.S. policy makers are clearly more fearful of the likely impact on the global economy.

Although the eurozone now has more tools to tackle a crisis since the European Central Bank launched its bond-buying program in March, U.S. officials believe a default is still likely to deliver a substantial shock. “On a scale of one to 10, where the collapse of Lehman is a 10, a Greek default would likely register as a six; that is down from eight in 2012,” reckons one U.S. official.

But European policy makers suspect that the risks of a Greek default would be manageable and argue that the Lehman comparisons are wrong: Of course, traders who bet the eurozone would never let Greece go would be caught out. But unlike the Lehman collapse, they argue, a Greek default wouldn’t trigger the same frantic scramble to identify who was exposed, nor would it cause the entire global financial system to question the value of its collateral.

Indeed, eurozone policy makers seem increasingly confident that a Greek default won’t inevitably lead to a euro exit and so wouldn’t be the end of the saga. In fact, it might even be the only way to persuade Athens to accept the necessary compromises.

Mr. Lew won’t have to wait long to find out whether his warnings were heeded—or his fears justified.

wsj
If begging should unfortunately be your destiny, knock only at the large gates.

Arabian Proverb
--------------------------------------------------
You've got to know when to hold 'em
Know when to fold 'em
Know when to walk away
And know when to run
You never count your money
When you're sittin' at the table
There'll be time enough for countin'
When the dealin's done

Kenny Rogers – The Gambler
------------------------------------------
It is not enough to be busy; so are the ants. The question is: What are we busy about?
Henry David Thoreau

tommy

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Re: Investir na Grécia
« Responder #3466 em: 2015-06-01 09:31:05 »
Citar
O ministro das Finanças grego Yanis Varoufakis causou hoje polémica no Governo de  esquerda radical, depois e ter nomeado uma controversa ex-deputada socialista com representante da Grécia no FMI. 
A economista Elena Panariti fez parte da equipa do Governo de coligação socialista-conservador anterior que negociou o plano de ajuda financeira ao país, marcado por uma forte austeridade.
 
A sua nomeação provocou a forte contestação de 43 deputados dos 149 do partido Syriza, no poder, e reacções de muitos quadros do Governo do primeiro-ministro Alexis Tsipras.
 
"Uma personalidade que representa a política (de austeridade) do memorando não pode representar o actual Governo, cujos princípios e valores são completamente diferentes", afirmam os deputados numa carta aberta publicada hoje à noite pela agência de notícias grega ANA.
 
"Esta é uma questão política, é uma decisão errada e exigimos a sua anulação", escrevem.
 
Alexis Tsipras e Yanis Varoufakis deverão reunir-se ainda hoje para debaterem a nomeação controversa, noticiou a ANA.


Bloquistas e Socialistas a decidir o futuro de um país. Tem tudo para dar certo.  ;D ;D ;D

Automek

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Re: Investir na Grécia
« Responder #3467 em: 2015-06-01 14:50:00 »
os blocos de esquerda são todos iguais em todo o lado. só diferem na velocidade a que se esfrangalham.

Ala radical do Syriza quer “rutura” nas negociações com os credores

Automek

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Re: Investir na Grécia
« Responder #3468 em: 2015-06-01 15:09:14 »
Citar
O ministro das Finanças grego Yanis Varoufakis causou hoje polémica no Governo de  esquerda radical, depois e ter nomeado uma controversa ex-deputada socialista com representante da Grécia no FMI. 
A economista Elena Panariti fez parte da equipa do Governo de coligação socialista-conservador anterior que negociou o plano de ajuda financeira ao país, marcado por uma forte austeridade.
 
A sua nomeação provocou a forte contestação de 43 deputados dos 149 do partido Syriza, no poder, e reacções de muitos quadros do Governo do primeiro-ministro Alexis Tsipras.
 
"Uma personalidade que representa a política (de austeridade) do memorando não pode representar o actual Governo, cujos princípios e valores são completamente diferentes", afirmam os deputados numa carta aberta publicada hoje à noite pela agência de notícias grega ANA.
 
"Esta é uma questão política, é uma decisão errada e exigimos a sua anulação", escrevem.
 
Alexis Tsipras e Yanis Varoufakis deverão reunir-se ainda hoje para debaterem a nomeação controversa, noticiou a ANA.



Bloquistas e Socialistas a decidir o futuro de um país. Tem tudo para dar certo.  ;D ;D ;D


parece que já foi de vela
Grécia Nova representante do país no FMI renuncia após críticas no Syriza

tommy

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Re: Investir na Grécia
« Responder #3469 em: 2015-06-01 15:12:29 »
ahahaha  :D :D :D

Estes gregos estão tão f******

http://www.economist.com/news/europe/21652076-while-prime-minister-alexis-tsipras-negotiates-eu-and-imf-his-partys-radicals-pull-another?fsrc=scn/tw/te/bl/ed/thewildones

Citar
"WOULD [a Greek exit from the euro] be such a catastrophe?" asked Panagiotis Lafazanis, Greece's industry, energy and environment minister, at a two-day meeting of the governing Syriza party over the weekend. Mr Lafazanis is the leader of Syriza's Left Platform, the radical faction of an already radical left-wing party. At the meeting of the party's central committee, Left Platform argued for an alternative plan to Greece's ongoing efforts to negotiate an agreement with its creditors: the government should break off the bail-out talks, default on its loans from the International Monetary Fund and prepare the country for Grexit. A strong minority of the central committee's 350 members backed the radicals' plan. But ultimately Alexis Tsipras, the prime minister, won support for the government's negotiating efforts in a show-of-hands vote.
(...)
The radicals within Syriza represent perhaps 35% of the party's members. They include Marxists and ex-communists (such as Mr Lafazanis), as well as a few Maoists and devotees of the late Venezuelan president Hugo Chavez. There are also several weightier figures, such as John Milios, an economist who last week called for suspending loan repayments. The rebels control only 20-30 of Syriza's 149 seats in parliament, but that could be enough to deny the government a majority, should a bail-out deal come up for a vote.

So far, Mr Tsipras has been able to keep his party on side, in part by staging noisy shows of defiance towards the EU and IMF even as he negotiates with them. The risk is that these shows of defiance may turn into a failure to make payments. Would this be a catastrophe? If the brinksmanship continues, Mr Lafazanis may soon learn the answer to his provocative question.


 :D
« Última modificação: 2015-06-01 15:19:55 por tommy »

Zark

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Re: Investir na Grécia
« Responder #3470 em: 2015-06-01 16:00:46 »
Paul Krugman - New York Times Blog
 
The Finnish Disease

A followup to my post inspired by troubles in Finland: it’s worth emphasizing just how bad Finland’s performance has been. For Finns, the great depression they remember is the slump at the beginning of the 1990s, driven by a combination of a bursting housing bubble and the collapse of the Soviet Union next door. The result was a very nasty slump, and a delayed recovery. But this time, although the slump in per capita GDP never got quite as deep, has been far more persistent:



Why can’t Finland recover this time? Debt is not a problem; borrowing costs are very low. But it’s all about the euro straitjacket. In 1990 the country could and did devalue, achieving a rapid gain in competitiveness. This time not, so that there is no quick way to adjust to adverse shocks:



This shouldn’t come as a surprise; it’s the core of the classic Milton Friedman argument for flexible exchange rates, and in turn for the tradeoff at the core of optimum currency area theory. The trouble in Finland is what everyone expected to go wrong with the euro.

What’s going on in Greece represents a whole additional level of hurt, which nobody saw coming. But it’s important, I think, to realize that even countries that didn’t borrow a lot, didn’t experience large capital inflows, basically did nothing wrong by the official criteria, are nonetheless suffering in a major way.

krugman
« Última modificação: 2015-06-01 16:02:22 por Zark »
If begging should unfortunately be your destiny, knock only at the large gates.

Arabian Proverb
--------------------------------------------------
You've got to know when to hold 'em
Know when to fold 'em
Know when to walk away
And know when to run
You never count your money
When you're sittin' at the table
There'll be time enough for countin'
When the dealin's done

Kenny Rogers – The Gambler
------------------------------------------
It is not enough to be busy; so are the ants. The question is: What are we busy about?
Henry David Thoreau

Automek

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Re: Investir na Grécia
« Responder #3471 em: 2015-06-01 16:07:25 »
Na Grécia a dúvida é quem irá rebentar primeiro, se a economia ou o Syriza.

Zark

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Re: Investir na Grécia
« Responder #3472 em: 2015-06-01 17:43:51 »
Na Grécia a dúvida é quem irá rebentar primeiro, se a economia ou o Syriza.


e o que me dizes da finlândia?

Z
If begging should unfortunately be your destiny, knock only at the large gates.

Arabian Proverb
--------------------------------------------------
You've got to know when to hold 'em
Know when to fold 'em
Know when to walk away
And know when to run
You never count your money
When you're sittin' at the table
There'll be time enough for countin'
When the dealin's done

Kenny Rogers – The Gambler
------------------------------------------
It is not enough to be busy; so are the ants. The question is: What are we busy about?
Henry David Thoreau

tommy

  • Visitante
Re: Investir na Grécia
« Responder #3473 em: 2015-06-01 17:49:26 »
O mesmo para a Venezuela, Argentina, etc.

Sem reformas e austeridade, mesmo tendo moeda própria, o resultado é zero. Pior que zero: negativo mesmo.

Secalhar a Finlândia precisa de fazer reformas, liberalizar a economia, reduzir o tamanho do estado e os direitos adquiridos. Secalhar já o está a fazer, e esse mesmo gráfico do economista que falha tudo, esticado mais 4 ou 5 anos provará que tenho razão.
Da mesma maneira que se reduzir o gráfico de 2008 - 2012 até parece que outra que tenho razão. Ou seja isto para dizer que se torturarmos o período temporal  ele diz-nos tudo o que nós quisermos que ele diga.

Mas no fim será sempre isto: sem reformas e austeridade, não há moeda que safe ninguém.
« Última modificação: 2015-06-01 17:50:30 por tommy »

Automek

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Re: Investir na Grécia
« Responder #3474 em: 2015-06-01 17:58:24 »
A Finlândia, esses coitados que já faliram tantas vezes. Os Gregos, não, esses são gente séria que se sabe governar bem.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sovereign_default#List_of_sovereign_debt_defaults_or_debt_restructuring

Zark

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Re: Investir na Grécia
« Responder #3475 em: 2015-06-01 18:13:21 »
A Finlândia, esses coitados que já faliram tantas vezes. Os Gregos, não, esses são gente séria que se sabe governar bem.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sovereign_default#List_of_sovereign_debt_defaults_or_debt_restructuring


não te perguntei pelos gregos.
perguntei-te pelos finlandeses.

Z
If begging should unfortunately be your destiny, knock only at the large gates.

Arabian Proverb
--------------------------------------------------
You've got to know when to hold 'em
Know when to fold 'em
Know when to walk away
And know when to run
You never count your money
When you're sittin' at the table
There'll be time enough for countin'
When the dealin's done

Kenny Rogers – The Gambler
------------------------------------------
It is not enough to be busy; so are the ants. The question is: What are we busy about?
Henry David Thoreau

Moppie85

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Re: Investir na Grécia
« Responder #3476 em: 2015-06-01 18:18:57 »
A Finlândia, esses coitados que já faliram tantas vezes. Os Gregos, não, esses são gente séria que se sabe governar bem.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sovereign_default#List_of_sovereign_debt_defaults_or_debt_restructuring


não te perguntei pelos gregos.
perguntei-te pelos finlandeses.

Z


num topico sobre a Grécia.

Automek

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Re: Investir na Grécia
« Responder #3477 em: 2015-06-01 18:24:09 »
Acreditar que "desta vez é que é" em relação aos gregos é negar toda a história de calotes que já deram. Não fosse o Mário a aguentar o barco e já andavam a comer terra e a beber água do mar.

vbm

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Re: Investir na Grécia
« Responder #3478 em: 2015-06-01 18:35:54 »
O Paulo Rangel disse hoje de manhã na Antena 1 que o governo vai apresentar uma proposta em Bruxelas sobre como a  UE deve tratar diferenciadamente os países em défice e que tal proposta, - impossível de ser formulada durante a assistência financeira, pois o país não teria credibilidade nenhuma no que pedisse - e agora tem, segundo Rangel -, vai deixar as sugestões económicas do PS perfeita politicamente obsoletas! Alguém sabe do que se trata? Parece que irá ser algo de uma Europa a duas velocidades, o que não me soa mal, se proporcionar convergência na evolução dos dois grupos! Estou com curiosidade, se é que não é  uma pura fantasia. De resto, quem são os economistas do governo? Victor Bento? Quem mais?

Zark

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Re: Investir na Grécia
« Responder #3479 em: 2015-06-01 18:36:45 »
A Finlândia, esses coitados que já faliram tantas vezes. Os Gregos, não, esses são gente séria que se sabe governar bem.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sovereign_default#List_of_sovereign_debt_defaults_or_debt_restructuring


não te perguntei pelos gregos.
perguntei-te pelos finlandeses.

Z


num topico sobre a Grécia.


num tópico sobre a grécia que tem englobado até agora toda a temática sobrr o euro e a zona euro.
é preciso abrir outro?

Z
If begging should unfortunately be your destiny, knock only at the large gates.

Arabian Proverb
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You've got to know when to hold 'em
Know when to fold 'em
Know when to walk away
And know when to run
You never count your money
When you're sittin' at the table
There'll be time enough for countin'
When the dealin's done

Kenny Rogers – The Gambler
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It is not enough to be busy; so are the ants. The question is: What are we busy about?
Henry David Thoreau