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Votação

Vai votar em quem nas próximas eleições legislativas 2015?

PSD/CDS
34 (56.7%)
PS
1 (1.7%)
CDU
0 (0%)
BE
3 (5%)
Agir
1 (1.7%)
Livre/TDA
5 (8.3%)
PDR
2 (3.3%)
Vou votar em branco
3 (5%)
Não vou votar
7 (11.7%)
Vou escrever no meu boletim de voto o palpite para o jogo da bola
0 (0%)
Outros partidos
4 (6.7%)

Votos totais: 55

Autor Tópico: Vai votar em quem nas próximas eleições legislativas 2015?  (Lida 38402 vezes)

Automek

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Re: Vai votar em quem nas próximas eleições legislativas 2015?
« Responder #20 em: 2015-09-12 18:18:35 »
defendes que se devia ter feito o quê ?

5555

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Re: Vai votar em quem nas próximas eleições legislativas 2015?
« Responder #21 em: 2015-09-12 19:55:02 »
....já em 2012 o http://www.nunomonteiro.org/why-a-soft-default-is-the-best-solution-to-the-crisis-in-portugal sugeria isto:


Citar
Why a Soft Default Is the Best Solution to the Crisis in Portugal

27October2012   
 

I have a new opinion piece (in Portuguese, with Eduardo Teixeira de Sousa) today in Expresso arguing that Portugal should assume a harder bargaining position vis-à-vis the troika of lenders (ECB, EU, and IMF) with which it negotiated a bailout package 18 months ago. You can find the original here (PDF) and the translated version below:

http://www.nunomonteiro.org/wp-content/uploads/20121027_monteiro_sousa_expresso_oped.pdf


Portugal and the Default Option One and a Half Years after the Bailout

Eighteen months ago we wrote in these pages that a controlled default on Portuguese public debt could be “the option that best serves the Portuguese national interest and that of the remaining Euro countries” (Expresso, April 30, 2011 [here and, for a follow-up piece on how to renegotiate the debt, here, both in Portuguese; english versions of similar pieces we published in the Guardian here and here]). A renegotiation of interest rates and repayment terms, we wrote, was necessary to avoid another “lost decade,” creating space for economic growth, sending a strong signal to the markets about moral hazard, regulating credit demand and supply, and containing the political risk of a populist drift caused by a recessive austerity spiral, which would be required by the attempt to reimburse the current debt in the originally agreed terms. With multipliers already known at the time from the Greek experience and in the absence of external political support for a different course, there were no other political economy alternatives, so it was imperative to confront all parties with the real scenario as soon as possible.

At the time, Portugal was negotiating a memorandum of understanding with the troika. Apart from the radical left, national elites believed that austerity would have a positive impact on the country by imposing fiscal and budgetary discipline, introducing structural reforms that would lead to economic growth, and stabilizing the credit markets. The consensus around the idea that Portugal would have to be a “decent” country — a delightfully simplistic analogy with household economics that ignored the real financial situation of the country and the imperatives of political economy among sovereign states — and as such would have to pay its debts to the last penny still reigned. Our defense of a soft default was therefore considered irresponsible and immoral.

If one and a half years ago the effectiveness of austerity was uncertain, its catastrophic ineffectiveness is now crystal clear. Portugal is on a self-destructive course. In face of the current disaster, only the government seems to defend the course it has set, which amplifies risks and the suffering of the Portuguese people. João Carlos Espada, perhaps the most conservative among Portuguese commentators, reacted to the recently announced increase in income tax by writing that it is time to “stop and think” (Publico, October 8, 2012 [gated version here]). In short, during the past two months, a majority of moderate, responsible Portuguese citizens woke up to the consequences of our refusal to address an inevitable debt negotiation: the economic and social destruction of the country without any hope of reversing the course in a reasonable timeframe. And therein lies the problem.

A debt renegotiation is preferable to continued austerity not because it is painless. A strong Portuguese government that would confront the troika with the calamity caused by the bailout terms and force a debt renegotiation will face a hostile environment in the EU and in credit markets, producing a period of hardship for the Portuguese population and a significant risk of financial shock. But we would have a light at the end of the tunnel. Having agreed — or, if that proves impossible, unilaterally declared — longer reimbursement schedules and lower interest rates for the mountain of debt that asphyxiates the country, Portugal would then have a window of opportunity to implement structural adjustment, something that is much easier to accomplish in an environment of economic growth, social consensus, and predictability.

Some continue to argue that a debt renegotiation would eliminate the main incentive we have today to make structural reforms. But during the year and a half that has passed since the Portuguese government most committed to introducing a “change of lifestyle” in living memory took office, life changed only in the sense that the population is impoverished. No structural reforms have been achieved or even initiated.

Others argue that a debt renegotiation would destroy the only political achievement of the present government: the “good pupil” image it has created in the EU, which is supposedly much appreciated by our European partners and which, we are told, will bring great benefits if and when the crisis worsens. But what benefit has the country had so far stemming from the current government’s position of practically abdicating sovereignty? On the contrary, despite the IMF’s states skepticism about the direction of the country, the EU has been unwilling to make concessions to the Portuguese “good pupil.” Only those who possess a naive view of international political economy could expect anything different.

Portugal has two possible paths. It can continue to destroy itself in a maelstrom of austerity, wasting another decade, after which it will be inevitably worse than it is now and yet unable to repay its debts. Or it can renegotiate its debt, anticipating the inevitable and concentrating the pain of readjustment in a relatively short period, after which it could resume a growth path anchored by healthy, feasible rules for debt repayment.

This is the main dilemma facing the country. It is important that we we have a public debate on both options instead of continuing to pretend that the second does not exist.

Automek

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Re: Vai votar em quem nas próximas eleições legislativas 2015?
« Responder #22 em: 2015-09-12 20:02:31 »
Foi isso que a Grécia fez 2 vezes, não foi ?

Perdão de dívida, não fazendo nada e mantendo o défice primário, é garantir que se volta ao mesmo estado passado uns anos.
« Última modificação: 2015-09-12 20:02:55 por Automek »

Lark

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Re: Vai votar em quem nas próximas eleições legislativas 2015?
« Responder #23 em: 2015-09-12 20:09:03 »
....já em 2012 o http://www.nunomonteiro.org/why-a-soft-default-is-the-best-solution-to-the-crisis-in-portugal sugeria isto:


Citar
Why a Soft Default Is the Best Solution to the Crisis in Portugal

27October2012   
 

I have a new opinion piece (in Portuguese, with Eduardo Teixeira de Sousa) today in Expresso arguing that Portugal should assume a harder bargaining position vis-à-vis the troika of lenders (ECB, EU, and IMF) with which it negotiated a bailout package 18 months ago. You can find the original here (PDF) and the translated version below:

http://www.nunomonteiro.org/wp-content/uploads/20121027_monteiro_sousa_expresso_oped.pdf


Portugal and the Default Option One and a Half Years after the Bailout

Eighteen months ago we wrote in these pages that a controlled default on Portuguese public debt could be “the option that best serves the Portuguese national interest and that of the remaining Euro countries” (Expresso, April 30, 2011 [here and, for a follow-up piece on how to renegotiate the debt, here, both in Portuguese; english versions of similar pieces we published in the Guardian here and here]). A renegotiation of interest rates and repayment terms, we wrote, was necessary to avoid another “lost decade,” creating space for economic growth, sending a strong signal to the markets about moral hazard, regulating credit demand and supply, and containing the political risk of a populist drift caused by a recessive austerity spiral, which would be required by the attempt to reimburse the current debt in the originally agreed terms. With multipliers already known at the time from the Greek experience and in the absence of external political support for a different course, there were no other political economy alternatives, so it was imperative to confront all parties with the real scenario as soon as possible.

At the time, Portugal was negotiating a memorandum of understanding with the troika. Apart from the radical left, national elites believed that austerity would have a positive impact on the country by imposing fiscal and budgetary discipline, introducing structural reforms that would lead to economic growth, and stabilizing the credit markets. The consensus around the idea that Portugal would have to be a “decent” country — a delightfully simplistic analogy with household economics that ignored the real financial situation of the country and the imperatives of political economy among sovereign states — and as such would have to pay its debts to the last penny still reigned. Our defense of a soft default was therefore considered irresponsible and immoral.

If one and a half years ago the effectiveness of austerity was uncertain, its catastrophic ineffectiveness is now crystal clear. Portugal is on a self-destructive course. In face of the current disaster, only the government seems to defend the course it has set, which amplifies risks and the suffering of the Portuguese people. João Carlos Espada, perhaps the most conservative among Portuguese commentators, reacted to the recently announced increase in income tax by writing that it is time to “stop and think” (Publico, October 8, 2012 [gated version here]). In short, during the past two months, a majority of moderate, responsible Portuguese citizens woke up to the consequences of our refusal to address an inevitable debt negotiation: the economic and social destruction of the country without any hope of reversing the course in a reasonable timeframe. And therein lies the problem.

A debt renegotiation is preferable to continued austerity not because it is painless. A strong Portuguese government that would confront the troika with the calamity caused by the bailout terms and force a debt renegotiation will face a hostile environment in the EU and in credit markets, producing a period of hardship for the Portuguese population and a significant risk of financial shock. But we would have a light at the end of the tunnel. Having agreed — or, if that proves impossible, unilaterally declared — longer reimbursement schedules and lower interest rates for the mountain of debt that asphyxiates the country, Portugal would then have a window of opportunity to implement structural adjustment, something that is much easier to accomplish in an environment of economic growth, social consensus, and predictability.

Some continue to argue that a debt renegotiation would eliminate the main incentive we have today to make structural reforms. But during the year and a half that has passed since the Portuguese government most committed to introducing a “change of lifestyle” in living memory took office, life changed only in the sense that the population is impoverished. No structural reforms have been achieved or even initiated.

Others argue that a debt renegotiation would destroy the only political achievement of the present government: the “good pupil” image it has created in the EU, which is supposedly much appreciated by our European partners and which, we are told, will bring great benefits if and when the crisis worsens. But what benefit has the country had so far stemming from the current government’s position of practically abdicating sovereignty? On the contrary, despite the IMF’s states skepticism about the direction of the country, the EU has been unwilling to make concessions to the Portuguese “good pupil.” Only those who possess a naive view of international political economy could expect anything different.

Portugal has two possible paths. It can continue to destroy itself in a maelstrom of austerity, wasting another decade, after which it will be inevitably worse than it is now and yet unable to repay its debts. Or it can renegotiate its debt, anticipating the inevitable and concentrating the pain of readjustment in a relatively short period, after which it could resume a growth path anchored by healthy, feasible rules for debt repayment.

This is the main dilemma facing the country. It is important that we we have a public debate on both options instead of continuing to pretend that the second does not exist.



concordo absolutamente com isto (uma opinião com 3 anos 3). acho que falta algo: default controlado e saída do euro.
as piores predições foram ultrapassada para pior. a austeridade mostrou ser um erro catastrófico.

a questão que se põe é a seguinte: se o PS tivesse estado no poder estes anos, teria feito diferente? a minha opinião? Não!

o PS é uma das faces da moeda. a outra é PSD/CDS. é uma falsa alternativa.
se o PS chegar ao governo passaremos a pertencer à obediência da loja do Rato em vez da da loja da Lapa.
passaremos a ser explorados por uma outra capelinha.
e a loja da Lapa passará a receber um chorudo subsídio de desemprego político da teta do estado, com a distribuição de lugares nas empresas públicas (e não públicas).

L
Be Kind; Everyone You Meet is Fighting a Battle.
Ian Mclaren
------------------------------
If you have more than you need, build a longer table rather than a taller fence.
l6l803399
-------------------------------------------
So, first of all, let me assert my firm belief that the only thing we have to fear is...fear itself — nameless, unreasoning, unjustified terror which paralyzes needed efforts to convert retreat into advance.
Franklin D. Roosevelt

Zel

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Re: Vai votar em quem nas próximas eleições legislativas 2015?
« Responder #24 em: 2015-09-12 20:28:14 »
lark, porque eh que votas no livre e nao no bloco?

Reg

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Re: Vai votar em quem nas próximas eleições legislativas 2015?
« Responder #25 em: 2015-09-12 20:33:09 »
o livre e para ps

como verdes sao para o PCP certo?
Democracia Socialista Democrata. igualdade de quem berra mais O que é meu é meu o que é teu é nosso

Lark

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Re: Vai votar em quem nas próximas eleições legislativas 2015?
« Responder #26 em: 2015-09-12 20:36:59 »
lark, porque eh que votas no livre e nao no bloco?

no livre? o livre defende a permanência de Portugal no euro.
porque é que havia de votar no livre?

a tua cusquice continua a levar a melhor sobre ti.

L
Be Kind; Everyone You Meet is Fighting a Battle.
Ian Mclaren
------------------------------
If you have more than you need, build a longer table rather than a taller fence.
l6l803399
-------------------------------------------
So, first of all, let me assert my firm belief that the only thing we have to fear is...fear itself — nameless, unreasoning, unjustified terror which paralyzes needed efforts to convert retreat into advance.
Franklin D. Roosevelt

Reg

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Re: Vai votar em quem nas próximas eleições legislativas 2015?
« Responder #27 em: 2015-09-12 20:37:59 »
lark, porque eh que votas no livre e nao no bloco?

no livre? o livre defende a permanência de Portugal no euro.
porque é que havia de votar no livre?

a tua cusquice continua a levar a melhor sobre ti.

L


o lark tem votar no PCP!
e unica alternativa e mal menor do lark coitado  tem votar alguem contra mercados  livre comercio so para sair euro
« Última modificação: 2015-09-12 20:44:14 por Reg »
Democracia Socialista Democrata. igualdade de quem berra mais O que é meu é meu o que é teu é nosso

Lark

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Re: Vai votar em quem nas próximas eleições legislativas 2015?
« Responder #28 em: 2015-09-12 21:23:26 »
lark, porque eh que votas no livre e nao no bloco?

no livre? o livre defende a permanência de Portugal no euro.
porque é que havia de votar no livre?

a tua cusquice continua a levar a melhor sobre ti.

L


o lark tem votar no PCP!
e unica alternativa e mal menor do lark coitado  tem votar alguem contra mercados  livre comercio so para sair euro

pois PCP...isso
só por curiosidade: onde é que alguma vez me viste escrever que sou contra mercados livres (acrescentar livre comércio é redundante)?

L
Be Kind; Everyone You Meet is Fighting a Battle.
Ian Mclaren
------------------------------
If you have more than you need, build a longer table rather than a taller fence.
l6l803399
-------------------------------------------
So, first of all, let me assert my firm belief that the only thing we have to fear is...fear itself — nameless, unreasoning, unjustified terror which paralyzes needed efforts to convert retreat into advance.
Franklin D. Roosevelt

Reg

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Re: Vai votar em quem nas próximas eleições legislativas 2015?
« Responder #29 em: 2015-09-12 21:38:43 »
tu nao es

mas para sair euro vais votar PCP que e contra mercado livre era queria dizer
Democracia Socialista Democrata. igualdade de quem berra mais O que é meu é meu o que é teu é nosso

Tridion

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Re: Vai votar em quem nas próximas eleições legislativas 2015?
« Responder #30 em: 2015-09-12 21:40:19 »
Não me revejo em nenhum partido e como tal estou indeciso.

O PS faliu o país e por isso não merece o meu voto. A coligação equilibrou o país mas os falsos moralismos deixam-me nauseado, especialmente porque também tem uma actuação idêntica ao PS. A casmurrice do Passos tem a vantagem, que ao não vacilar, acaba por bater sempre na mesma tecla e ter alguns resultados.

Alguém conhece um partido que defenda o estado social, mas que aposte na sua redução quer em tamanho quer em funções? E de preferência que não defenda o investimento inteligente?
______________________________________
Bons Negócios
http://twitter.com/TridionTrader
http://theknownothinginvestor.com/

Lark

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Re: Vai votar em quem nas próximas eleições legislativas 2015?
« Responder #31 em: 2015-09-12 21:52:02 »
tu nao es

mas para sair euro vais votar PCP que e contra mercado livre era queria dizer

acho que nem o PCP quer que Portugal saia do euro.
tal é...

L
Be Kind; Everyone You Meet is Fighting a Battle.
Ian Mclaren
------------------------------
If you have more than you need, build a longer table rather than a taller fence.
l6l803399
-------------------------------------------
So, first of all, let me assert my firm belief that the only thing we have to fear is...fear itself — nameless, unreasoning, unjustified terror which paralyzes needed efforts to convert retreat into advance.
Franklin D. Roosevelt

Counter Retail Trader

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Re: Vai votar em quem nas próximas eleições legislativas 2015?
« Responder #32 em: 2015-09-12 22:04:29 »
Mais importante que o Costa , Passos, Jeronimos e Catarinas . sao as pessoas que os acompanham ....

Alguem os conhece ? Imaginem que ganha o Costa , quem vao ser os ministros e respectiva entourage chupista ?  e se for o Jeronimo ? e ser for a catarina ou outro ?

zAPPa

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Re: Vai votar em quem nas próximas eleições legislativas 2015?
« Responder #33 em: 2015-09-12 22:46:00 »
Mais importante que o Costa , Passos, Jeronimos e Catarinas . sao as pessoas que os acompanham ....

Alguem os conhece ? Imaginem que ganha o Costa , quem vao ser os ministros e respectiva entourage chupista ?  e se for o Jeronimo ? e ser for a catarina ou outro ?

Devem ser da "entourage" que elabora o respectivo programa de governo, não?
Jim Chanos: "We Are In The Golden Age of Fraud".

Counter Retail Trader

  • Visitante
Re: Vai votar em quem nas próximas eleições legislativas 2015?
« Responder #34 em: 2015-09-12 23:13:52 »
Mais importante que o Costa , Passos, Jeronimos e Catarinas . sao as pessoas que os acompanham ....

Alguem os conhece ? Imaginem que ganha o Costa , quem vao ser os ministros e respectiva entourage chupista ?  e se for o Jeronimo ? e ser for a catarina ou outro ?

Devem ser da "entourage" que elabora o respectivo programa de governo, não?

Obvio Frank , a questao é se alguem os conhece?  Imagina , vou votar Costa ou outro , alguem sabe quem vai ser o ministro da defesa? do turismo ? da agricultura ? economia?

Era engraçado saber quantos portugueses tem esse conhecimento

eagle51

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Re: Vai votar em quem nas próximas eleições legislativas 2015?
« Responder #35 em: 2015-09-12 23:14:58 »
Foi muito interessante ver o demagogo do presidente do PS prometer que se forem governo pagam todo o dinheiro ao lesados do BES. Como promessa eleitoral não há melhor até ao momento. Assunto quentinho, a raiar o escandalo com manifestantes activos... Bem bom este espirito de oportunismo.

Não me preocupa minimamente como irão implementar tal medida se forem governo, porque obviamente que nem eles próprios devem estar a levar a sério.

Entretanto o Costa também já começou a lançar a ideia de fazer regressar as obras públicas. Juntando isso a dar condições para o aumento do consumo, acho justo e oportuno lançarmos uma aposto para saber em que ano da eventual legislatura PS é que a troika volta a ser chamada.

eagle51

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Re: Vai votar em quem nas próximas eleições legislativas 2015?
« Responder #36 em: 2015-09-12 23:17:55 »
Mais importante que o Costa , Passos, Jeronimos e Catarinas . sao as pessoas que os acompanham ....

Alguem os conhece ? Imaginem que ganha o Costa , quem vao ser os ministros e respectiva entourage chupista ?  e se for o Jeronimo ? e ser for a catarina ou outro ?

Devem ser da "entourage" que elabora o respectivo programa de governo, não?



Era engraçado saber quantos portugueses tem esse conhecimento


Nem sei se é assim tão óbvio. Os programas são desenhados por especialistas (que dependendo das linhas de pensamento fazem programas com determinadas caracteristicas e dependendo da competência fazem com mais ou menos rigor ou disparates). Os ministros são escolhidos de acordo com o equilibrio de poderes internos de cada partido, lobbies, confiança do PM, etc.
Obvio Frank , a questao é se alguem os conhece?  Imagina , vou votar Costa ou outro , alguem sabe quem vai ser o ministro da defesa? do turismo ? da agricultura ? economia?

Incognitus

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Re: Vai votar em quem nas próximas eleições legislativas 2015?
« Responder #37 em: 2015-09-13 02:35:04 »
....já em 2012 o http://www.nunomonteiro.org/why-a-soft-default-is-the-best-solution-to-the-crisis-in-portugal sugeria isto:


Citar
Why a Soft Default Is the Best Solution to the Crisis in Portugal

27October2012   
 

I have a new opinion piece (in Portuguese, with Eduardo Teixeira de Sousa) today in Expresso arguing that Portugal should assume a harder bargaining position vis-à-vis the troika of lenders (ECB, EU, and IMF) with which it negotiated a bailout package 18 months ago. You can find the original here (PDF) and the translated version below:

http://www.nunomonteiro.org/wp-content/uploads/20121027_monteiro_sousa_expresso_oped.pdf


Portugal and the Default Option One and a Half Years after the Bailout

Eighteen months ago we wrote in these pages that a controlled default on Portuguese public debt could be “the option that best serves the Portuguese national interest and that of the remaining Euro countries” (Expresso, April 30, 2011 [here and, for a follow-up piece on how to renegotiate the debt, here, both in Portuguese; english versions of similar pieces we published in the Guardian here and here]). A renegotiation of interest rates and repayment terms, we wrote, was necessary to avoid another “lost decade,” creating space for economic growth, sending a strong signal to the markets about moral hazard, regulating credit demand and supply, and containing the political risk of a populist drift caused by a recessive austerity spiral, which would be required by the attempt to reimburse the current debt in the originally agreed terms. With multipliers already known at the time from the Greek experience and in the absence of external political support for a different course, there were no other political economy alternatives, so it was imperative to confront all parties with the real scenario as soon as possible.

At the time, Portugal was negotiating a memorandum of understanding with the troika. Apart from the radical left, national elites believed that austerity would have a positive impact on the country by imposing fiscal and budgetary discipline, introducing structural reforms that would lead to economic growth, and stabilizing the credit markets. The consensus around the idea that Portugal would have to be a “decent” country — a delightfully simplistic analogy with household economics that ignored the real financial situation of the country and the imperatives of political economy among sovereign states — and as such would have to pay its debts to the last penny still reigned. Our defense of a soft default was therefore considered irresponsible and immoral.

If one and a half years ago the effectiveness of austerity was uncertain, its catastrophic ineffectiveness is now crystal clear. Portugal is on a self-destructive course. In face of the current disaster, only the government seems to defend the course it has set, which amplifies risks and the suffering of the Portuguese people. João Carlos Espada, perhaps the most conservative among Portuguese commentators, reacted to the recently announced increase in income tax by writing that it is time to “stop and think” (Publico, October 8, 2012 [gated version here]). In short, during the past two months, a majority of moderate, responsible Portuguese citizens woke up to the consequences of our refusal to address an inevitable debt negotiation: the economic and social destruction of the country without any hope of reversing the course in a reasonable timeframe. And therein lies the problem.

A debt renegotiation is preferable to continued austerity not because it is painless. A strong Portuguese government that would confront the troika with the calamity caused by the bailout terms and force a debt renegotiation will face a hostile environment in the EU and in credit markets, producing a period of hardship for the Portuguese population and a significant risk of financial shock. But we would have a light at the end of the tunnel. Having agreed — or, if that proves impossible, unilaterally declared — longer reimbursement schedules and lower interest rates for the mountain of debt that asphyxiates the country, Portugal would then have a window of opportunity to implement structural adjustment, something that is much easier to accomplish in an environment of economic growth, social consensus, and predictability.

Some continue to argue that a debt renegotiation would eliminate the main incentive we have today to make structural reforms. But during the year and a half that has passed since the Portuguese government most committed to introducing a “change of lifestyle” in living memory took office, life changed only in the sense that the population is impoverished. No structural reforms have been achieved or even initiated.

Others argue that a debt renegotiation would destroy the only political achievement of the present government: the “good pupil” image it has created in the EU, which is supposedly much appreciated by our European partners and which, we are told, will bring great benefits if and when the crisis worsens. But what benefit has the country had so far stemming from the current government’s position of practically abdicating sovereignty? On the contrary, despite the IMF’s states skepticism about the direction of the country, the EU has been unwilling to make concessions to the Portuguese “good pupil.” Only those who possess a naive view of international political economy could expect anything different.

Portugal has two possible paths. It can continue to destroy itself in a maelstrom of austerity, wasting another decade, after which it will be inevitably worse than it is now and yet unable to repay its debts. Or it can renegotiate its debt, anticipating the inevitable and concentrating the pain of readjustment in a relatively short period, after which it could resume a growth path anchored by healthy, feasible rules for debt repayment.

This is the main dilemma facing the country. It is important that we we have a public debate on both options instead of continuing to pretend that the second does not exist.



concordo absolutamente com isto (uma opinião com 3 anos 3). acho que falta algo: default controlado e saída do euro.
as piores predições foram ultrapassada para pior. a austeridade mostrou ser um erro catastrófico.

a questão que se põe é a seguinte: se o PS tivesse estado no poder estes anos, teria feito diferente? a minha opinião? Não!

o PS é uma das faces da moeda. a outra é PSD/CDS. é uma falsa alternativa.
se o PS chegar ao governo passaremos a pertencer à obediência da loja do Rato em vez da da loja da Lapa.
passaremos a ser explorados por uma outra capelinha.
e a loja da Lapa passará a receber um chorudo subsídio de desemprego político da teta do estado, com a distribuição de lugares nas empresas públicas (e não públicas).

L


Como é que racionalizas o facto de que os únicos períodos em que Portugal recuperou nível de vida relativo face à Europa nos últimos 50 anos, foram dois períodos de moeda forte e semi-forte (ou seja, sob o Marcelo Caetano e com a entrada para a UE/ERM/Euro)?
"Nem tudo o que pode ser contado conta, e nem tudo o que conta pode ser contado.", Albert Einstein

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Lark

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Re: Vai votar em quem nas próximas eleições legislativas 2015?
« Responder #38 em: 2015-09-13 03:01:16 »
....já em 2012 o http://www.nunomonteiro.org/why-a-soft-default-is-the-best-solution-to-the-crisis-in-portugal sugeria isto:


Citar
Why a Soft Default Is the Best Solution to the Crisis in Portugal

27October2012   
 

I have a new opinion piece (in Portuguese, with Eduardo Teixeira de Sousa) today in Expresso arguing that Portugal should assume a harder bargaining position vis-à-vis the troika of lenders (ECB, EU, and IMF) with which it negotiated a bailout package 18 months ago. You can find the original here (PDF) and the translated version below:

http://www.nunomonteiro.org/wp-content/uploads/20121027_monteiro_sousa_expresso_oped.pdf


Portugal and the Default Option One and a Half Years after the Bailout

Eighteen months ago we wrote in these pages that a controlled default on Portuguese public debt could be “the option that best serves the Portuguese national interest and that of the remaining Euro countries” (Expresso, April 30, 2011 [here and, for a follow-up piece on how to renegotiate the debt, here, both in Portuguese; english versions of similar pieces we published in the Guardian here and here]). A renegotiation of interest rates and repayment terms, we wrote, was necessary to avoid another “lost decade,” creating space for economic growth, sending a strong signal to the markets about moral hazard, regulating credit demand and supply, and containing the political risk of a populist drift caused by a recessive austerity spiral, which would be required by the attempt to reimburse the current debt in the originally agreed terms. With multipliers already known at the time from the Greek experience and in the absence of external political support for a different course, there were no other political economy alternatives, so it was imperative to confront all parties with the real scenario as soon as possible.

At the time, Portugal was negotiating a memorandum of understanding with the troika. Apart from the radical left, national elites believed that austerity would have a positive impact on the country by imposing fiscal and budgetary discipline, introducing structural reforms that would lead to economic growth, and stabilizing the credit markets. The consensus around the idea that Portugal would have to be a “decent” country — a delightfully simplistic analogy with household economics that ignored the real financial situation of the country and the imperatives of political economy among sovereign states — and as such would have to pay its debts to the last penny still reigned. Our defense of a soft default was therefore considered irresponsible and immoral.

If one and a half years ago the effectiveness of austerity was uncertain, its catastrophic ineffectiveness is now crystal clear. Portugal is on a self-destructive course. In face of the current disaster, only the government seems to defend the course it has set, which amplifies risks and the suffering of the Portuguese people. João Carlos Espada, perhaps the most conservative among Portuguese commentators, reacted to the recently announced increase in income tax by writing that it is time to “stop and think” (Publico, October 8, 2012 [gated version here]). In short, during the past two months, a majority of moderate, responsible Portuguese citizens woke up to the consequences of our refusal to address an inevitable debt negotiation: the economic and social destruction of the country without any hope of reversing the course in a reasonable timeframe. And therein lies the problem.

A debt renegotiation is preferable to continued austerity not because it is painless. A strong Portuguese government that would confront the troika with the calamity caused by the bailout terms and force a debt renegotiation will face a hostile environment in the EU and in credit markets, producing a period of hardship for the Portuguese population and a significant risk of financial shock. But we would have a light at the end of the tunnel. Having agreed — or, if that proves impossible, unilaterally declared — longer reimbursement schedules and lower interest rates for the mountain of debt that asphyxiates the country, Portugal would then have a window of opportunity to implement structural adjustment, something that is much easier to accomplish in an environment of economic growth, social consensus, and predictability.

Some continue to argue that a debt renegotiation would eliminate the main incentive we have today to make structural reforms. But during the year and a half that has passed since the Portuguese government most committed to introducing a “change of lifestyle” in living memory took office, life changed only in the sense that the population is impoverished. No structural reforms have been achieved or even initiated.

Others argue that a debt renegotiation would destroy the only political achievement of the present government: the “good pupil” image it has created in the EU, which is supposedly much appreciated by our European partners and which, we are told, will bring great benefits if and when the crisis worsens. But what benefit has the country had so far stemming from the current government’s position of practically abdicating sovereignty? On the contrary, despite the IMF’s states skepticism about the direction of the country, the EU has been unwilling to make concessions to the Portuguese “good pupil.” Only those who possess a naive view of international political economy could expect anything different.

Portugal has two possible paths. It can continue to destroy itself in a maelstrom of austerity, wasting another decade, after which it will be inevitably worse than it is now and yet unable to repay its debts. Or it can renegotiate its debt, anticipating the inevitable and concentrating the pain of readjustment in a relatively short period, after which it could resume a growth path anchored by healthy, feasible rules for debt repayment.

This is the main dilemma facing the country. It is important that we we have a public debate on both options instead of continuing to pretend that the second does not exist.



concordo absolutamente com isto (uma opinião com 3 anos 3). acho que falta algo: default controlado e saída do euro.
as piores predições foram ultrapassada para pior. a austeridade mostrou ser um erro catastrófico.

a questão que se põe é a seguinte: se o PS tivesse estado no poder estes anos, teria feito diferente? a minha opinião? Não!

o PS é uma das faces da moeda. a outra é PSD/CDS. é uma falsa alternativa.
se o PS chegar ao governo passaremos a pertencer à obediência da loja do Rato em vez da da loja da Lapa.
passaremos a ser explorados por uma outra capelinha.
e a loja da Lapa passará a receber um chorudo subsídio de desemprego político da teta do estado, com a distribuição de lugares nas empresas públicas (e não públicas).

L


Como é que racionalizas o facto de que os únicos períodos em que Portugal recuperou nível de vida relativo face à Europa nos últimos 50 anos, foram dois períodos de moeda forte e semi-forte (ou seja, sob o Marcelo Caetano e com a entrada para a UE/ERM/Euro)?


já andas vender o marcelo caetano há uns bons tempos.
o que é que isso interessa para o caso vertente?

se queres que te diga, não racionalizo. não me preocupo com isso nem estou interessado.
há qualquer coisa que eu não estou bem a perceber.

queres que as pessoas condenem o que tu condenas.
queres que as pessoas comentem o que tu queres que elas comentem.

isso não é um bocado de exagero?
apresentares a tua opinião sobre o caetano é uma coisa.
praticamente exigir que se comente é exagero.

as pessoa se entenderem comentar comentarão. não é preciso empurrá-las.

L
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Incognitus

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Re: Vai votar em quem nas próximas eleições legislativas 2015?
« Responder #39 em: 2015-09-13 03:17:53 »
Eu já expliquei mas a tua factofobia não absorveu: o período do Marcelo foi um de moeda (escudo) forte e Portugal ganhou bastante relativamente à Europa. O outro período em que ganhámos foi de 1986 a 2000, a seguir à entrada para a UE e ERM e na fase de entrada para o Euro.

Entre 1974 e 1986, quando se praticou uma política de moeda fraca, perdemos face à Europa.

Como é que racionalizas defenderes uma política de moeda fraca perante esses factos? Não se trata do Marcelo, o Marcelo é "uma coincidência".
"Nem tudo o que pode ser contado conta, e nem tudo o que conta pode ser contado.", Albert Einstein

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