Olá, Visitante. Por favor entre ou registe-se se ainda não for membro.

Entrar com nome de utilizador, password e duração da sessão
 

Autor Tópico: Grécia - Tópico principal  (Lida 1845181 vezes)

Lark

  • Ordem dos Especialistas
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Mensagens: 4627
    • Ver Perfil
Re: Grécia - Tópico principal
« Responder #9500 em: 2015-08-27 17:37:42 »
Na Grécia é de relembrar que a possibilidade de arbitragem entre NBG e o National Bank of Greece cotado em Atenas (ETE.AT) está novamente activa:

National Bank Of Greece Arbitrage Round 2
http://seekingalpha.com/article/3454726-national-bank-of-greece-arbitrage-round-2


vale a pena pensar nos bancos gregos a sério. prospectivar o que vai acontecer com eles. vão ficar sob a alçada total do BCE por um lado, mas por outro o BCE não os pode deixar cair. a não ser que sejam insolventes agora e a intervenção do BCE seja já para os liquidar/vender à la FDIC.

L
« Última modificação: 2015-08-27 17:46:37 por Lark »
Be Kind; Everyone You Meet is Fighting a Battle.
Ian Mclaren
------------------------------
If you have more than you need, build a longer table rather than a taller fence.
l6l803399
-------------------------------------------
So, first of all, let me assert my firm belief that the only thing we have to fear is...fear itself — nameless, unreasoning, unjustified terror which paralyzes needed efforts to convert retreat into advance.
Franklin D. Roosevelt

Lark

  • Ordem dos Especialistas
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Mensagens: 4627
    • Ver Perfil
Re: Grécia - Tópico principal
« Responder #9501 em: 2015-08-27 17:39:01 »
Lark, se o Syriza ganhar com maioria absoluta a partir de dia 21 ponho "O Lark tinha razão! Parabéns!" como assinatura, não seja por isso :)

juras que pões? gostava de ver isso nem que fosse só por um dia... : D.

Done, mas se perdes, metes tu "O Lark não acerta uma" pelo menos um diazito também ;)

it's a deal e será com o maior prazer...

L
« Última modificação: 2015-08-27 17:40:07 por Lark »
Be Kind; Everyone You Meet is Fighting a Battle.
Ian Mclaren
------------------------------
If you have more than you need, build a longer table rather than a taller fence.
l6l803399
-------------------------------------------
So, first of all, let me assert my firm belief that the only thing we have to fear is...fear itself — nameless, unreasoning, unjustified terror which paralyzes needed efforts to convert retreat into advance.
Franklin D. Roosevelt

Incognitus

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Mensagens: 30961
    • Ver Perfil
Re: Grécia - Tópico principal
« Responder #9502 em: 2015-08-27 17:57:26 »
Na Grécia é de relembrar que a possibilidade de arbitragem entre NBG e o National Bank of Greece cotado em Atenas (ETE.AT) está novamente activa:

National Bank Of Greece Arbitrage Round 2
http://seekingalpha.com/article/3454726-national-bank-of-greece-arbitrage-round-2


vale a pena pensar nos bancos gregos a sério. prospectivar o que vai acontecer com eles. vão ficar sob a alçada total do BCE por um lado, mas por outro o BCE não os pode deixar cair. a não ser que sejam insolventes agora e a intervenção do BCE seja já para os liquidar/vender à la FDIC.

L


No mínimo vai existir diluição. Mas uma arbitragem evita ter que se pensar em tais problemas ou adivinhar o que será arbitrariamente decidido.
"Nem tudo o que pode ser contado conta, e nem tudo o que conta pode ser contado.", Albert Einstein

Incognitus, www.thinkfn.com

Deus Menor

  • Ordem dos Especialistas
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Mensagens: 1972
    • Ver Perfil
Re: Grécia - Tópico principal
« Responder #9503 em: 2015-08-27 22:07:22 »

Pode até ser coincidência a forma como os media de esquerda deixaram de falar na Venezuela e na Grécia, utilizando
o drama dos refugiados como manobra de diversão e a habitual dose de caridade Humanista.

Não deve faltar muito até aparecerem atores, escritores e outros intelectuais nas fronteiras a ajudar os migrantes
e a fazer a sua promoção habitual.

mbarrela

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Mensagens: 47
    • Ver Perfil
Re: Grécia - Tópico principal
« Responder #9504 em: 2015-08-27 22:27:08 »

Pode até ser coincidência a forma como os media de esquerda deixaram de falar na Venezuela e na Grécia, utilizando
o drama dos refugiados como manobra de diversão e a habitual dose de caridade Humanista.

Não deve faltar muito até aparecerem atores, escritores e outros intelectuais nas fronteiras a ajudar os migrantes
e a fazer a sua promoção habitual.

Olha, pelos menos ontem na TVI mostrou mais uma inovação nas leis venezuelanas :D

" Proibição da fazer filas " para fazer compras :D

Muito bom!

Deus Menor

  • Ordem dos Especialistas
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Mensagens: 1972
    • Ver Perfil
Re: Grécia - Tópico principal
« Responder #9505 em: 2015-08-27 22:39:08 »

Olha, pelos menos ontem na TVI mostrou mais uma inovação nas leis venezuelanas :D

" Proibição da fazer filas " para fazer compras :D

Muito bom!

 :D

Lark

  • Ordem dos Especialistas
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Mensagens: 4627
    • Ver Perfil
Re: Grécia - Tópico principal
« Responder #9506 em: 2015-08-27 23:21:12 »
How Greece outflanked Germany and won generous debt relief

Published: Aug 24, 2015 12:24 p.m. ET

Alexis Tsipras, who is likely to continue as Greek prime minister after precipitating a general election for next month, arrived in power in January attempting to resolve an “impossible trinity”: relaxing the economic squeeze, rescheduling Greece’s unpayable debts, and keeping the country in the euro.

Satisfactorily achieving all three aims appeared unachievable — and it was. Yet Tsipras appears to have achieved greater success than Angela Merkel, his main European sparring partner. The German chancellor, too, promised her electorate three unrealizable goals. However, frightened of being made a scapegoat worldwide for ejecting Greece from the euro EURUSD, +0.0089%  , she seems to have caved in to international pressure even more than Tsipras.

The big question is whether, once the full generosity of Greek debt relief becomes widely known, other large-scale debtors around the world — ranging from indebted Chinese local authorities to borrowers from Italy, Portugal and Spain — will demand similar concessions from creditors.
The debt rescheduling under way for Greece, partly prompted by the International Monetary Fund’s accurate labelling of Greek debts as unsustainable, appears reminiscent of the relief that West Germany gained from a “troika” of international lenders (France, the U.K. and the U.S.) at the 1953 London debt conference.

At a time when global economic storm clouds are darkening, Greek voters may well thank Tsipras for shifting much of the country’s borrowings on to concessionary terms. The big question is whether, once the full generosity of Greek debt relief becomes widely known, other large-scale debtors around the world — ranging from indebted Chinese local authorities to borrowers from Italy, Portugal and Spain — will demand similar concessions from creditors.

The new €86 billion low-cost Greek bailout will probably not be fully redeemed until 2075 — a similar extension of loan repayments that was granted to West Germany in 1953, with some long-standing borrowings not repaid until 57 years later, in 2010.

Further effective Greek debt reductions will occur in the autumn as part of a deal to keep the IMF as a direct underwriter of Greek debt. Germany’s insistence on bringing in the IMF is politically expedient yet economically contradictory. Greece’s biggest creditor believes the only way to make its lending domestically palatable is to keep on board another lender (the IMF), which will do so only if Germany asks its taxpayers to shoulder fresh burdens through stretching out loan repayments and lowering interest costs.

Merkel’s promises to German voters have had a Tsipras-like quality: maintain the unity of euro members, avoid full-scale Greek debt restructuring, and keep euro economic policies in line with German-style orthodoxy. Both Merkel and Tspiras have resolved their individual “trilemmas” by attempting to keep their respective electorates in the dark about the extent to which they have diluted their principles.

Both have faced party revolts: Tsipras from the splitting of far-left factions from his Syriza party, Merkel from last week’s strong vote against the bailout by members of her Christian Democrat and Christian Social Union grouping.

Yet Tsipras is backed by 61% of the electorate, according to one poll, despite having to submit to creditor demands on economic restructuring. In the elections on Sept. 20 or 27, he will achieve his strategy of consolidating his political power base against divided and disheartened traditional parties that lack both desire and capacity to return to government in the foreseeable future.

Even though he will lose some Syriza rebels to a new far-left grouping, Tsipras can benefit from a possible coalition link up with two small pro-European parties — the Panhellenic Socialist Movement and center-left To Potami (The River). The third pro-European grouping, the center-right New Democracy, would lead the opposition. Tsipras is masterminding the election to profit from widespread domestic acknowledgment that he has resisted the more brutish demands of his creditors, yet before tax increases and spending cuts under the new bailout take effect in October.

As I have repeatedly written over the past six months, Greece has played a poor hand of negotiating cards with aplomb. Tsipras and Yanis Varoufakis, the former finance minister, devilishly abandoned diplomatic niceties yet gained maximum reward from European Realpolitik. My contention has been that the single currency’s most troublesome state would remain inside the euro as long as Greek nuisance value (GNV), both political and economic, was held to be lower inside the system (I) than it would be outside (O).

So far, GNV-O is still higher than GNV-I. All sorts of Greek maneuverings — talks with Russia, concerns about humanitarian disasters in the Mediterranean, speculation about a Greek exit bringing down the euro — have been useful ploys to keep that equation intact. Tsipras’s prize has been large-scale debt relief. If other international debtors follow suit, creditors face a nightmare.

MarketWatch
Be Kind; Everyone You Meet is Fighting a Battle.
Ian Mclaren
------------------------------
If you have more than you need, build a longer table rather than a taller fence.
l6l803399
-------------------------------------------
So, first of all, let me assert my firm belief that the only thing we have to fear is...fear itself — nameless, unreasoning, unjustified terror which paralyzes needed efforts to convert retreat into advance.
Franklin D. Roosevelt

Lark

  • Ordem dos Especialistas
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Mensagens: 4627
    • Ver Perfil
Re: Grécia - Tópico principal
« Responder #9507 em: 2015-08-27 23:22:59 »
está-me cá a parecer que a grécia vai ser um bom sítio para investir, a partir do outono.
especulativamente, agora mesmo, antes das eleições não seria má ideia.

L
Be Kind; Everyone You Meet is Fighting a Battle.
Ian Mclaren
------------------------------
If you have more than you need, build a longer table rather than a taller fence.
l6l803399
-------------------------------------------
So, first of all, let me assert my firm belief that the only thing we have to fear is...fear itself — nameless, unreasoning, unjustified terror which paralyzes needed efforts to convert retreat into advance.
Franklin D. Roosevelt

Incognitus

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Mensagens: 30961
    • Ver Perfil
Re: Grécia - Tópico principal
« Responder #9508 em: 2015-08-28 01:20:36 »
A arbitragem vai resolver-se um pouco hoje, mas não totalmente porque o limite de conversão de ADRs vai ser atingido rápido.

http://www.adrbnymellon.com/files/AL43242.pdf
"Nem tudo o que pode ser contado conta, e nem tudo o que conta pode ser contado.", Albert Einstein

Incognitus, www.thinkfn.com

tommy

  • Visitante
Re: Grécia - Tópico principal
« Responder #9509 em: 2015-08-28 11:13:17 »
Deixaram a população na miséria, assinaram de cruz um plano de austeridade reforçado e com medidas "à vista" e ainda acham que tiveram uma vitória! Incrível!  :D

Há gente louca para tudo.

vbm

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Mensagens: 13839
    • Ver Perfil
Re: Grécia - Tópico principal
« Responder #9510 em: 2015-08-28 12:13:43 »
Na miséria, já estavam há muito.
E nem davam por isso!
Sounds familiar?

Incognitus

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Mensagens: 30961
    • Ver Perfil
Re: Grécia - Tópico principal
« Responder #9511 em: 2015-08-28 13:17:33 »
Na Grécia é de relembrar que a possibilidade de arbitragem entre NBG e o National Bank of Greece cotado em Atenas (ETE.AT) está novamente activa:

National Bank Of Greece Arbitrage Round 2
http://seekingalpha.com/article/3454726-national-bank-of-greece-arbitrage-round-2


vale a pena pensar nos bancos gregos a sério. prospectivar o que vai acontecer com eles. vão ficar sob a alçada total do BCE por um lado, mas por outro o BCE não os pode deixar cair. a não ser que sejam insolventes agora e a intervenção do BCE seja já para os liquidar/vender à la FDIC.

L


No mínimo vai existir diluição. Mas uma arbitragem evita ter que se pensar em tais problemas ou adivinhar o que será arbitrariamente decidido.


Como se pode reparar, o NBG está a colapsar nos EUA ao mesmo tempo que sobe em Atenas, e o resultado é que esta arbitragem funcionou mais uma vez (infelizmente eu não tenho acesso ao mercado Grego, pelo que não a usei nenhuma das vezes).
"Nem tudo o que pode ser contado conta, e nem tudo o que conta pode ser contado.", Albert Einstein

Incognitus, www.thinkfn.com

tommy

  • Visitante
Re: Grécia - Tópico principal
« Responder #9512 em: 2015-08-28 15:14:53 »
Citar
7 Aug 28, 2015 9:03 AM EDT
By Megan McArdle

Venezuela seems to be hovering on the edge of tipping into hyperinflation. Or perhaps it has already fallen into the abyss. Given the paucity of official data -- the none-too-believable official figures were last published in February -- it's a little hard to tell. The best guess we have at the value of a Venezuelan bolivar comes from the Colombian village of Cucuta, where people go to buy currency so they can smuggle subsidized fuel and other price-controlled goods out of Venezuela. As The Economist notes: "Transactions are few; the dollar rate is calculated indirectly, from the value of the Colombian peso. The result is erratic, but more realistic than the three official rates."

Using those rates, economist Steve Hanke recently told Bloomberg that annual cost-of-living increases are running at about 722 percent. To put that in some perspective, it means that a $400 monthly grocery bill would climb to $2,888 in a year. That may not approach the legendary status of Hungary's postwar inflation, which reached 41.9 quadrillion percent in a single month, but it's devastating for savers, or for people like pensioners whose incomes consist of fixed payments. It's also pretty bad for the economy.

It's a bit of a mystery why this is happening. No, right, don't tell me: The government is printing too much money! Indeed. As Milton Friedman famously said, "Inflation is always and everywhere a monetary phenomenon." When too much money is chasing too few goods, prices rise. And the most common source of "too much money" is government printing presses.

But I'm not asking for the mechanism; I'm asking for the reason. Why is the Venezuelan government resorting to the printing press?

I know you've got an answer to that, too. Seigniorage! That's the fancy name for the profit a government makes by printing bills and minting coins. If you can buy more goods and services with the cash you made than it cost you to make it, you have essentially collected a stealthy sort of tax on the people who take the money from you and give you valuable stuff in exchange.

In general, seigniorage revenue is trivial -- indeed, it costs the U.S. government more to make nickels and pennies than the coins themselves are worth. But even with higher-value bills, the revenues pale in comparison to, say, the income tax. Estimates are hard to come by, but a 1992 analysis by the Federal Reserve put the value of seigniorage to the Treasury at about 1.6 percent of real federal on-budget expenditure. It's not nothing, but it's not going to keep civil servants in pensions, either. And the U.S. enjoys an unusual amount of seigniorage revenue because dollars are in heavy demand among citizens of unstable countries and people who want to conduct illegal transactions in cash.

Governments can try to jack up the amount of seigniorage revenue by stealthily inflating the currency. Basically, they exploit an information asymmetry between them and the people they trade the money to: The government knows how much money there is, and its citizens don't. So they'll probably accept fewer units of currency than they would if they knew the government was going to print extra money and thus cause prices to rise again.

But this is a terrible way to make money, which is why governments normally don't resort to this one clever trick for raising government spending without raising taxes. The problem is that inflation expectations rise pretty rapidly to compensate, and then the government needs to print even more money to outrace its newly suspicious trading partners.

The core thing to understand about inflation as a policy tool is that in general, steady-state inflation doesn't do you any good; what you need is accelerating inflation. A little bit of inflation is actually OK -- it allows the economy to naturally cushion economic shocks that would otherwise lead to unemployment. In the dark ages of economics, some people got the idea that if a little bit of inflation was good, more must be even better: Set the printing presses to "full stun" and enjoy perpetually higher economic growth. (You still see this folk economics circulating on the Internet from time to time.) But this doesn't work. People start to expect the inflation, and the economy returns to its natural level of output, except that everyone's savings are now worth less. To get more growth, you have to inflate even faster than you did before.

Unfortunately, once inflation starts to accelerate, it's kind of hard to stop because people also start pricing the acceleration into their expectations. Hyperinflation has all sorts of bad knock-on effects: It hurts your capital base and makes people unwilling to plan for the future because they have no idea what their money will be worth. But the supreme irony is that after a certain point, the government actually starts losing money. You've probably heard of the much-maligned Laffer Curve, which was used to support unrealistically optimistic estimates of the revenue-generating effects of Reagan-era tax cuts. But it actually does a pretty good job describing what happens to government revenues during hyperinflation: First they go up, but then they go down, down, down, and the government stops being able to buy goods and services because people don't have any use for the money, except maybe to economize on the Kleenex they can no longer afford to buy.

These are not arcane secrets, known only to a select few in the economics community. I guarantee that there are sober analysts in the Venezuelan government who know exactly where this is headed. Why, then, have they let things get to a point where they are preparing to issue bigger bills so that people won't have to carry around a sack of money every time they want to run out for a quart of milk?

Part of the answer is that in the early days, inflating does make the government a little more money, and the point at which it starts to lose money is also the point at which the freight train is traveling 120 miles an hour, and it has a choice between slamming on the brakes and killing everyone instantly or waiting to hurtle over the cliff. Embezzlers and accounting frauds often start this way -- they fudge things just a little to cover a temporary shortfall. Only the underlying problem doesn't go away, and they need to fudge even more the next quarter to cover up both the gap they have now and the gap they covered up last quarter. They tend to be uncovered when the gap is so big that it can no longer be fudged. This is what happened to Bernie Madoff when the market collapsed.

The larger answer is that this is the end game of Chavismo. For about a decade, some sectors of the left hoped that Hugo Chavez represented an alternative to the neoliberal consensus on economic policy. Every time I wrote that Chavez was in fact direly mismanaging the economy, diverting investment funds that were needed to maintain oil output into social spending, I knew that I could look forward to receiving angry e-mails and comments accusing me of trying to sabotage his achievements for the benefit of my corporatist paymaster. And in fairness (though without minimizing his appalling authoritarianism), those policies undoubtedly did improve the lives of some incredibly poor people.

The problem was that the money he was using was, essentially, the nation's seed corn. Venezuelan crude oil is relatively expensive to extract and refine and required a high level of investment just to keep production level. As long as oil prices were booming, this policy wasn't too costly because the increase offset production losses. But this suffered from the same acceleration problem that we discussed earlier: The more production fell, the more the country needed prices to rise to offset it. Between 1996 and 2001, Venezuela was producing more than 3 million barrels a day. It is now producing about 2.7 million barrels a day. In real terms, the price of a barrel of oil is barely higher than it was in August 2000, but Venezuela is producing something like 700,000 fewer barrels each day. Policies that looked great on the way up -- more revenue and more social spending -- became disastrous on the way down as the population was hit with the double whammy of lower production and lower prices.

This was predictable. Indeed, many people predicted it, including me, though I was just channeling smarter and better-informed people, not displaying any particular sagacity. But the Venezuelan government either didn't listen to the predictions or didn't believe them. Now falling oil prices are crushing government revenues at exactly the time the country most needs money to help the people who are suffering great misery as the oil cash drains out of their economy. In the beginning, printing money may have looked like the best of a lot of bad options. By the time it became clear that the country was not fudging its way out of a temporary hole, but making a bad situation worse, it was committed to a course that is extremely painful to reverse.

Venezuela may be able to pull back from the edge, though it can only do so with great pain. Or it may end up in a hyperinflationary spiral, which will ultimately mean even greater pain. I don't envy the decisions it will have to make. Or the millions of Venezuelan people who will have to live with them.

This column does not necessarily reflect the opinion of the editorial board or Bloomberg LP and its owners.

To contact the author on this story:
Megan McArdle at mmcardle3@bloomberg.net

Prova que imprimir moeda para resolver problemas NÃO resulta. Destruiria tudo na grécia, portugal e onde quer que seja testado.

Pip-Boy

  • Ordem dos Especialistas
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Mensagens: 1245
    • Ver Perfil
Re: Grécia - Tópico principal
« Responder #9513 em: 2015-08-28 15:54:26 »
O BCE está a imprimir 60 mil milhões todos os meses e ainda não destruiu nada, até ver... :)

Imprimir por si só não leva directamente a hiperinflação. Para haver inflação esse dinheiro tem que circular, comprar bens e provocar aumento de preços.
Depende não só do money supply mas também do money velocity.
The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly, is to fill the world with fools.

Incognitus

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Mensagens: 30961
    • Ver Perfil
Re: Grécia - Tópico principal
« Responder #9514 em: 2015-08-28 16:03:47 »
O BCE está a imprimir 60 mil milhões todos os meses e ainda não destruiu nada, até ver... :)

Imprimir por si só não leva directamente a hiperinflação. Para haver inflação esse dinheiro tem que circular, comprar bens e provocar aumento de preços.
Depende não só do money supply mas também do money velocity.

O problema de imprimir dá-se, até ver, em moedas que já têm dificuldade em ser aceites mesmo sem imprimir. Nas maiores o problema para já não parece evidente. Mas mesmo nessas deve existir um limite qualquer em que se torna evidente.
"Nem tudo o que pode ser contado conta, e nem tudo o que conta pode ser contado.", Albert Einstein

Incognitus, www.thinkfn.com

Pip-Boy

  • Ordem dos Especialistas
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Mensagens: 1245
    • Ver Perfil
Re: Grécia - Tópico principal
« Responder #9515 em: 2015-08-28 16:32:16 »
Sim, claro, em moedas que já sofrem de "falta de confiança", em cima disso imprimir não lhes vai fazer bem nenhum.
Agora em moedas que sofrem de "excesso de confiança", imprimir pode traze-las para valores mais saudáveis no equilíbrio entre reserva de valor/meio de troca.
The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly, is to fill the world with fools.

Pip-Boy

  • Ordem dos Especialistas
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Mensagens: 1245
    • Ver Perfil
Re: Grécia - Tópico principal
« Responder #9516 em: 2015-08-28 16:35:47 »
Eleicoes confirmadas para dia 20 Setembro.

Ultima sondagem:
Citar
SYRIZA 23
ND 19
G Dawn 6.5
KKE 5
PASOK 4.5
Potami 4
Pop. Unity 3.5
Cent Union 3
Other 3.5
Undec 25.5


http://observador.pt/2015/08/28/lafazanis-o-ex-syriza-que-se-tornou-o-novo-inimigo-de-tsipras/
The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly, is to fill the world with fools.

Lark

  • Ordem dos Especialistas
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Mensagens: 4627
    • Ver Perfil
Re: Grécia - Tópico principal
« Responder #9517 em: 2015-08-28 16:52:48 »
Eleicoes confirmadas para dia 20 Setembro.

Ultima sondagem:
Citar
SYRIZA 23
ND 19
G Dawn 6.5
KKE 5
PASOK 4.5
Potami 4
Pop. Unity 3.5
Cent Union 3
Other 3.5
Undec 25.5


http://observador.pt/2015/08/28/lafazanis-o-ex-syriza-que-se-tornou-o-novo-inimigo-de-tsipras/


na minha opinião estas sondagens são enganadoras; se a pergunta fosse: 'tsipras ou outros' (lark tem razão / lark estava completamente errado) o resultado seria completamente diferente.

esperemos por 20 de setembro.

L

« Última modificação: 2015-08-28 16:53:13 por Lark »
Be Kind; Everyone You Meet is Fighting a Battle.
Ian Mclaren
------------------------------
If you have more than you need, build a longer table rather than a taller fence.
l6l803399
-------------------------------------------
So, first of all, let me assert my firm belief that the only thing we have to fear is...fear itself — nameless, unreasoning, unjustified terror which paralyzes needed efforts to convert retreat into advance.
Franklin D. Roosevelt

Storgoff

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Mensagens: 106
    • Ver Perfil
Re: Grécia - Tópico principal
« Responder #9518 em: 2015-08-28 17:00:31 »
O BCE está a imprimir 60 mil milhões todos os meses e ainda não destruiu nada, até ver... :)

Imprimir por si só não leva directamente a hiperinflação. Para haver inflação esse dinheiro tem que circular, comprar bens e provocar aumento de preços.
Depende não só do money supply mas também do money velocity.

A inflação como definida tecnicamente não aumenta quase nada. O mesmo se passou nos EUA com o QE.

A questão é que hoje vivemos mais numa chamada economia financeira do que numa economia real (produção de bens e serviços- onde é medida a tal inflação).

Mas na economia financeira aí tens inflação e deflação à bruta. Alias o QE tinha como objectivo claro o inflacionar forte do mercado de activos e não o mercado de bens e serviços.
Portanto imprimir dinheiro gera inflação e forte mas não aquela que conta para as estatísticas.

vbm

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Mensagens: 13839
    • Ver Perfil
Re: Grécia - Tópico principal
« Responder #9519 em: 2015-08-28 17:05:44 »

A inflação como definida tecnicamente não aumenta quase nada. O mesmo se passou nos EUA com o QE.

A questão é que hoje vivemos mais numa chamada economia financeira do que numa economia real (produção de bens e serviços- onde é medida a tal inflação).

Mas na economia financeira aí tens inflação e deflação à bruta. Alias o QE tinha como objectivo claro o inflacionar forte do mercado de activos e não o mercado de bens e serviços.
Portanto imprimir dinheiro gera inflação e forte mas não aquela que conta para as estatísticas.

Exacto. No fundo,
é mera substituição
de titulares de propriedade,
crédito a um, liquidez a outro;
e tudo se reduz ao que este fará.