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Autor Tópico: Grécia - Tópico principal  (Lida 1839866 vezes)

tommy

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Re: Grécia - Tópico principal
« Responder #7620 em: 2015-07-07 21:10:52 »
É até assustador pensar que há almas perdidas que acham que os gregos vão conseguir alongar as maturidades e baixar os juros sem um plano de austeridade puro e duro.
[ ]


O plano de austeridade a trabalhar vai existir de certeza.


Tens de perceber que quem paga as contas é que manda. E quem paga as contas sabe ir ao leme muito melhor que os incompetentes dos gregos que já se fartam de falir. Nem uma roulotte de enchidos sabem gerir, quanto mais um país.

Ignorante é quem vai à falência, e nem contas sabe fazer. Porque é mesmo muito burro. Por isso mais vale obedecer a quem sabe. Daí acabarem de joelhos e pata estendida.

Quem é inteligente e capaz, sabe gerir, e é por isso que manda. Porque já demonstrou.

Ao contrário de falhados que o máximo que já conseguiram foi escrever para um fórum ou um blog. Escrever no twitter exige menos que gerir um país. Por isso é que qualquer burro limitado pode escrever no twitter.
Já gerir um país de forma rigorosa com as contas em dia, é só para quem sabe. E quem sabe...manda.


« Última modificação: 2015-07-07 21:13:53 por tommy »

Zel

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Re: Grécia - Tópico principal
« Responder #7621 em: 2015-07-07 21:17:18 »
comeca a haver rumores de uma reducao de divida acompanhada por um haircut das contas bancarias gregas (um beijinho e uma martelada, tal como elas gostam)
« Última modificação: 2015-07-07 21:18:07 por Neo-Liberal »

Automek

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Re: Grécia - Tópico principal
« Responder #7622 em: 2015-07-07 21:19:15 »
É preciso ser um país de incapazes para conseguir falir várias vezes sem ser na sequência de uma guerra ou de uma catástrofe natural de grandes dimensões.

O curioso é dizerem que estes agora são diferentes dos anteriores e, ao mesmo tempo, apontarem o dedo aos alemães como se ainda fossem discípulos do Hitler. Com o Syriza toda a gente tem de passar uma esponja no passado, mas a Merkl continua com a suástica impressa na testa.

Reg

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Re: Grécia - Tópico principal
« Responder #7623 em: 2015-07-07 21:26:29 »
comeca a haver rumores de uma reducao de divida acompanhada por um haircut das contas bancarias gregas (um beijinho e uma martelada, tal como elas gostam)

se for isso  sao mais sanguesugas.
Democracia Socialista Democrata. igualdade de quem berra mais O que é meu é meu o que é teu é nosso

Automek

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Re: Grécia - Tópico principal
« Responder #7624 em: 2015-07-07 21:36:24 »
É tão linda a solidariedade e a preocupação. Parecem os likes no Facebook. E se ligassem ao Obama para passar o cheque ?

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Grécia entra nas presidenciais norte-americanas com Hillary Clinton

“O que está a acontecer na Grécia é uma tragédia”, diz Hillary Clinto, referindo que “as pessoas estão a sofrer”. “Peço aos europeus que recorram a todos os meios para conseguirem chegar a um acordo”, sublinhou a candidata às presidenciais de 2016.
Observador

Deus Menor

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Re: Grécia - Tópico principal
« Responder #7625 em: 2015-07-07 21:38:53 »
É tão linda a solidariedade e a preocupação. Parecem os likes no Facebook. E se ligassem ao Obama para passar o cheque ?

Citar
Grécia entra nas presidenciais norte-americanas com Hillary Clinton

“O que está a acontecer na Grécia é uma tragédia”, diz Hillary Clinto, referindo que “as pessoas estão a sofrer”. “Peço aos europeus que recorram a todos os meios para conseguirem chegar a um acordo”, sublinhou a candidata às presidenciais de 2016.
Observador

Ainda dizem que os USA não são Comunistas.

Vendo estas declarações até acho que o Trump é um Homem bom 8)

Incognitus

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Re: Grécia - Tópico principal
« Responder #7626 em: 2015-07-07 21:41:41 »
4:40:31 PM DJN - DJ MERKEL: GREEK PROPOSALS HAVE TO GO BEYOND WHAT BAILOUT INSTITUTIONS DEMANDED BEFORE REFERENDUM
"Nem tudo o que pode ser contado conta, e nem tudo o que conta pode ser contado.", Albert Einstein

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Lark

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Re: Grécia - Tópico principal
« Responder #7627 em: 2015-07-07 21:44:33 »
Kinder, Gentler IMF Austerity Stance Came Too Late to Aid Greece


A growing recognition by IMF economists since the global financial crisis of the dangers of imposing too much austerity on cash-starved countries may have come too late to help the fund’s biggest client: Greece.

From 2008 to 2013, the International Monetary Fund became more accepting of fiscal measures to aid expansion around the world and began to recommend nations with limited room for stimulus make a more-gradual return to budget surpluses, according to a 2014 analysis of IMF research by Cornel Ban, an international-relations professor at Boston University.

Even though the IMF had been pushing for debt relief for several years, as the junior partner to European creditors its message largely failed to break through until Thursday, when the fund published an analysis detailing how much longer the nation would need for repayment. The IMF also suggested the Europeans would have to accept a principal writedown if Greek reforms were watered down any further.

The decision to release the analysis may have played into the hands of Greek Prime Minister Alexis Tsipras. Greeks agreed with him and voted resoundingly in a referendum Sunday to reject proposals from the IMF and European creditors to unlock more bailout funds.

“What the IMF is saying is the Europeans have to provide Greece with debt relief, and that debt relief will mean there’s less of a fiscal adjustment,” said Desmond Lachman, a former IMF official and now a resident fellow at the American Enterprise Institute in Washington. “They’re softening their position, but it’s a little late in the day.”
Missed Payment

The referendum came five days after Greece failed to make a debt payment of $1.7 billion to the IMF, the largest missed payment in the fund’s seven-decade history, freezing the lender’s biggest bailout program.

The fund decided to release the debt analysis last week in an effort to be transparent about Greece’s financial situation, an IMF official told reporters on a conference call Thursday, when asked if the institution was concerned the analysis might influence the referendum’s outcome. The official gave the briefing on condition of anonymity.

As a member of the so-called troika of creditors that included the European Commission and European Central Bank, the fund’s hands were tied from the start, even as it tried to be more flexible.

Worried that a Greek default might trigger a European banking crisis, the fund’s board agreed in 2010 to waive a cornerstone of IMF bailouts which required that Greece’s debt be sustainable.

Internal Review

An internal review in 2013 would conclude that the IMF should have pushed earlier for a restructuring of Greece’s debt, which would have eased austerity and limited the economy’s contraction. As it turned out, Greece plunged into a much deeper recession than anticipated, with unemployment surging to about 25 percent in 2012.

The IMF now recognizes that an earlier restructuring of Greece’s debt would have helped the country’s recovery, said a person familiar with the fund’s program in Greece. IMF officials also accept that their assumptions underestimated the extent to which spending cuts would impede growth, according to the person, who asked not to be identified.

Still, Greece had no choice but to narrow its budget deficit to restore confidence in the economy, the person said. The fund also faced a Greek government that repeatedly failed in delivering on reform promises, completing just one of 16 benchmarks in the last year and a half, according to the person.

Lagarde Stance

By the time Christine Lagarde took over as IMF managing director in July 2011, the fund was recalibrating its broader position. In an opinion piece in the Financial Times that August, she warned that “slamming on the brakes too quickly” on fiscal stimulus around the world would threaten the global recovery.

In March 2012, the IMF approved a new $36 billion loan program for Greece, around the same time private bondholders agreed to take a writedown on the value of Greek debt. Even so, the IMF said euro-member states would probably have to offer further debt relief.

The fund’s World Economic Outlook that October said policy makers may have been underestimating the effect of fiscal measures on economic growth since the financial crisis. The implication for Greece: Public spending cuts may have caused more economic pain than first thought.

Such growing views were reflected in the biographies and research of 144 economists whose work was cited in the fund’s flagship economic-outlook and financial-stability reports, according to Boston University’s Ban, who didn’t examine specific nations or lending programs. He found that 58 percent of the authors supported some kind of “doctrinal change” from the fund’s orthodox views on fiscal policy.

Senior Officials

The shift was heavily influenced by senior officials at the fund, including former Managing Director Dominique Strauss-Kahn, who was appointed in 2007, Ban wrote in his paper. Also, under IMF chief economist Olivier Blanchard, who was hired in 2008 and will retire this year, the fund became more open to views such as supporting the use of discretionary spending to spur growth, according to Ban.

More recently, with Greece’s government balking at terms for aid from the IMF and European creditors, much of the criticism leveled at the IMF on Greece is misguided, said Jacob Funk Kirkegaard, a senior fellow at the Peterson Institute for International Economics in Washington. The other four European loan programs the IMF offered since the crisis -- Ireland, Portugal, Cyprus and Iceland -- turned out well, he said.

During the Asian financial crisis in the late 1990s, the IMF’s prescriptions for tight monetary policy and restructuring in the banking sector fueled resentment in countries such as Thailand and Indonesia.

“The IMF has actually been better than it was back in those old days, but the IMF is in a more difficult position” because of its membership in the troika, said Joseph Stiglitz, the Nobel laureate and longtime critic of the IMF, in a phone interview before the referendum.

“When you have a debt crisis, there needs to be a quick and deep restructuring, and if you don’t do that the overhang lingers and the economic recession or depression continues,” Stiglitz said.

bloomberg
Be Kind; Everyone You Meet is Fighting a Battle.
Ian Mclaren
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If you have more than you need, build a longer table rather than a taller fence.
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So, first of all, let me assert my firm belief that the only thing we have to fear is...fear itself — nameless, unreasoning, unjustified terror which paralyzes needed efforts to convert retreat into advance.
Franklin D. Roosevelt

Incognitus

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Re: Grécia - Tópico principal
« Responder #7628 em: 2015-07-07 21:45:44 »
É tão linda a solidariedade e a preocupação. Parecem os likes no Facebook. E se ligassem ao Obama para passar o cheque ?

Citar
Grécia entra nas presidenciais norte-americanas com Hillary Clinton

“O que está a acontecer na Grécia é uma tragédia”, diz Hillary Clinto, referindo que “as pessoas estão a sofrer”. “Peço aos europeus que recorram a todos os meios para conseguirem chegar a um acordo”, sublinhou a candidata às presidenciais de 2016.
Observador

A Hillary falar de graça já é uma ajuda. Ela até a instituições de beneficiência cobra.  :D
"Nem tudo o que pode ser contado conta, e nem tudo o que conta pode ser contado.", Albert Einstein

Incognitus, www.thinkfn.com

tommy

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Re: Grécia - Tópico principal
« Responder #7629 em: 2015-07-07 21:46:45 »
4:40:31 PM DJN - DJ MERKEL: GREEK PROPOSALS HAVE TO GO BEYOND WHAT BAILOUT INSTITUTIONS DEMANDED BEFORE REFERENDUM


http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-07-02/tsipras-learning-europe-s-number-1-rule-don-t-mess-with-merkel
Citar
Alexis Tsipras is flouting the cardinal rule of political survival in Europe: don’t displease Angela Merkel.
The German chancellor’s disapproval helped end the political careers of former Italian prime minister Silvio Berlusconi and Greek leader George Papandreou.
After burning through whatever goodwill he had with Merkel’s lawmakers and the German public, the current Greek premier could be next.



Deus Menor

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Re: Grécia - Tópico principal
« Responder #7630 em: 2015-07-07 21:49:30 »
É tão linda a solidariedade e a preocupação. Parecem os likes no Facebook. E se ligassem ao Obama para passar o cheque ?

Citar
Grécia entra nas presidenciais norte-americanas com Hillary Clinton

“O que está a acontecer na Grécia é uma tragédia”, diz Hillary Clinto, referindo que “as pessoas estão a sofrer”. “Peço aos europeus que recorram a todos os meios para conseguirem chegar a um acordo”, sublinhou a candidata às presidenciais de 2016.
Observador

A Hillary falar de graça já é uma ajuda. Ela até a instituições de beneficiência cobra.  :D

O Bill sempre foi a "mulher" lá em casa. ;D

tommy

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Re: Grécia - Tópico principal
« Responder #7631 em: 2015-07-07 21:52:15 »
O Bill sempre foi a "mulher" lá em casa. ;D

Tirando os momentos com a Mónica.

Incognitus

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Re: Grécia - Tópico principal
« Responder #7632 em: 2015-07-07 21:54:33 »
4:53:00 PM RTRS - MERKEL SAYS THERE CAN BE NO QUESTION OF A DEBT HAIRCUT FOR  GREECE, WOULD BE ILLEGAL UNDER EU TREATY

4:53:13 PM DJN - DJ MERKEL: TALKS ON DEBT SUSTAINABILITY WOULD COME AT THE VERY END

* MERKEL SAYS SITUATION IS 'RELATIVELY SERIOUS'

* JUNCKER: WE HAVE A GREXIT SCENARIO PREPARED IN GREAT DETAIL


« Última modificação: 2015-07-07 21:56:15 por Incognitus »
"Nem tudo o que pode ser contado conta, e nem tudo o que conta pode ser contado.", Albert Einstein

Incognitus, www.thinkfn.com

Zel

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Re: Grécia - Tópico principal
« Responder #7633 em: 2015-07-07 22:03:59 »
nao me lixem o rally de amanha  :D

Incognitus

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Re: Grécia - Tópico principal
« Responder #7634 em: 2015-07-07 22:08:27 »
Isto parece ter ficado tudo para Domingo, e desta vez é que parece mesmo uma decisão de fazer um acordo ou estoirar.
"Nem tudo o que pode ser contado conta, e nem tudo o que conta pode ser contado.", Albert Einstein

Incognitus, www.thinkfn.com

Lark

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Re: Grécia - Tópico principal
« Responder #7635 em: 2015-07-07 22:18:04 »
Let German Comics Explain The Absurdity Of Austerity In Greece

While Germany may be Greece's most fearsome opponent in negotiations over the country's debts, some German comics are sympathetic to the dilemma facing their Mediterranean neighbor.

In March, the German TV comedy show "Die Anstalt" (meaning "The Institution") imagined what would happen if Greece's troika of international creditors -- the International Monetary Fund, the European Central Bank and the European Commission -- were just three German guys sitting down in a restaurant in Greece. The skit, titled "Bananenrepublik" (no translation needed), provides a brilliant metaphor of the impossible choices Greece must make to pay back its creditors. The Huffington Post's Braden Goyette translated the sketch, and we have shared some choice segments below.

In a particularly funny segment at the beginning of the sketch, three German men calling themselves the troika sit down to eat in a Greek restaurant. They want to be served, but when the restaurant owner offers them classic Greek dishes -- moussaka, souvlaki and tzatziki -- the troika members inform him he cannot serve any of those items. Instead, the Greek restaurateur must serve a new German menu, in order to "receive the next installment of funds" the restaurant needs to survive.

By taking wine off the menu to cut costs, the troika has rendered the business inoperable. Nonetheless, the German patrons laud the new menu for enabling a "completely balanced" budget.

Bar owner: Your help has only made things worse!
Troika man #1: Ach, now it's our fault again?!
Bar owner: Yes, last time you took wine off my menu!
Troika man #1: There was no other alternative.
Bar owner: This is a wine bar! Now I don't have any sales anymore.
Troika man #2: But now your budget is completely balanced.
Bar owner: Yes, I have no expenses, but I also have no income.
Troika man #1: You see? Doesn't get more balanced than that!
The restaurant owner goes on to complain that it is not his fault he got into debt and needed the troika's help. The troika is unsympathetic, and only has unyielding Old Testament justice to offer.

Bar owner: You don't understand! No wine, no business!
Troika man #2: You should've thought of that before you got into debt!
Bar owner: I inherited the debt from my father!
Troika man #1: You should've thought of that before you got that father!

The scene is a spot-on illustration of Greece's central grievance with its creditors -- a grievance backed, incidentally, by a broad array of economists. Like the Greek restaurant owner denied his staple menu offerings to save money in the short term, Greece says the fiscal austerity demanded by its creditors in exchange for bailout loans have prevented the country from recovering economically. And the Greek government thinks this approach is penny-wise and pound-foolish.

hp

Be Kind; Everyone You Meet is Fighting a Battle.
Ian Mclaren
------------------------------
If you have more than you need, build a longer table rather than a taller fence.
l6l803399
-------------------------------------------
So, first of all, let me assert my firm belief that the only thing we have to fear is...fear itself — nameless, unreasoning, unjustified terror which paralyzes needed efforts to convert retreat into advance.
Franklin D. Roosevelt

camisa

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Re: Grécia - Tópico principal
« Responder #7636 em: 2015-07-07 22:19:40 »
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Merkel just told the Greeks yes, there is some money, but forget debt haircut, and the new deal is far harsher than what was on the table because the Greek economy is now imploding. Also, the deal will be 2-3 years at least to start, so even more austerity is on the table. So to all those who voted "Oxi", if you want your deposits unlocked well... tough.

acho que a Grécia vai ser "libertada" das correntes do euro...


Lark

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Re: Grécia - Tópico principal
« Responder #7637 em: 2015-07-07 22:20:17 »
Isto parece ter ficado tudo para Domingo, e desta vez é que parece mesmo uma decisão de fazer um acordo ou estoirar.

Domingo 12.
Ainda podes ganhar a aposta.
Não me parece, mas ainda há esperança. para a aposta.

L
Be Kind; Everyone You Meet is Fighting a Battle.
Ian Mclaren
------------------------------
If you have more than you need, build a longer table rather than a taller fence.
l6l803399
-------------------------------------------
So, first of all, let me assert my firm belief that the only thing we have to fear is...fear itself — nameless, unreasoning, unjustified terror which paralyzes needed efforts to convert retreat into advance.
Franklin D. Roosevelt

Counter Retail Trader

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Re: Grécia - Tópico principal
« Responder #7638 em: 2015-07-07 22:31:26 »
Isto parece ter ficado tudo para Domingo, e desta vez é que parece mesmo uma decisão de fazer um acordo ou estoirar.

É verdade , contudo estou mais inclinado para um acordo ... mas de saida..
Com vontdae isto em 24h horas estava feito , maximo 48h ...

Estou a pensar como é que podemos comprovar isso (saida) antes de domingo...

Zel

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Re: Grécia - Tópico principal
« Responder #7639 em: 2015-07-07 23:10:34 »
o joao de deus pinheiro tem uma entrevista gira na sic noticias (online). com toda a sua experiencia dentro da UE ele acha que nao vai haver acordo e q a grecia vai sair do euro.
« Última modificação: 2015-07-07 23:11:22 por Neo-Liberal »