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Autor Tópico: Grécia - Tópico principal  (Lida 1840098 vezes)

Reg

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Re: Grécia - Tópico principal
« Responder #5980 em: 2015-06-30 00:16:12 »
[ ]
Já agora, parece-te bem o calote dos 1000 milhões que querem dar aos Portugueses? É que geralmente tudo o que é subjectivo te incomoda como sendo grandes roubos, e este, que é objectivo, dir-se-ia não te incomodar.

o emprego
das populações gerar os bens que as pessoas
precisam e desejam consumir, e não
apenas os gadgets que alguns
trusts impingem por todo o lado.

Bem dito, é precisamente aí que reside o problema. estes economistas não conseguem perceber isso, estão "agarrados às palas" dos gráficos e a dogmas da escola de pensamento austriaca  ou de Chicago. enfim....só vivem de teclados, não conhecem o mundo no terreno e o que é viver do trabalho.


eu gasto nos gadgets que quero sejam estupidos ou nao aos olhos outras pessoas

 e nunca foi desses malucos ficam com credito 50%  rendimento para comprar carros
Democracia Socialista Democrata. igualdade de quem berra mais O que é meu é meu o que é teu é nosso

Incognitus

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Re: Grécia - Tópico principal
« Responder #5981 em: 2015-06-30 00:27:17 »
Mig, isso da soja só pode partir de quem não sabe como o mercado com entrega física funciona.

O BPN, BES, etc, bem, o BPN se não fosse nacionalizado seria roubo apenas a quem investisse ou lhe emprestasse dinheiro. E o BES ainda não provocou perdas.

Já os 1000 milhões serão uma perda directa se a Grécia não os paga. E solidariedade já teve a suficiente, aliás, mete-me um bocado de confusão que queiras ter MAIS solidariedade para com os Gregos. Não seria melhor dirigires isso para os Portugueses? É que 1/4 da população Grega está reformada, 3/4 das população Grega acima de 55 anos está reformada, e as reformas Gregas médias são quase o DOBRO das Portuguesas médias. Não seria melhor estoirar aqueles 1000 milhões cá em vez de na Grécia?

É engraçada a lavagem que por aí vai para andarem pessoas com essas opiniões sem sentido nenhum. Incrível, mesmo.

-------------

Mas em todo o caso, mig, infelizmente vou começar a cortar nesses posts porque excedem o meu limite de suficiente razoabilidade.

Compreendo que seja possível espalhar ideias alucinadas dessas pelo país fora, mas isso não quer dizer que alguém com 2 dedos de testa as tenha que ver aqui. Isso é material para sites daqueles do 911 e da não-ida à lua, não para um debate razoável aqui no thinkfn.
« Última modificação: 2015-06-30 00:38:32 por Incognitus »
"Nem tudo o que pode ser contado conta, e nem tudo o que conta pode ser contado.", Albert Einstein

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Zenith

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Re: Grécia - Tópico principal
« Responder #5982 em: 2015-06-30 00:37:47 »
Anda muita gente ansiosa  ;D
Queriam que a Grécia saísse do Euro (está quase), e esperavam que na cerimónia de saída o Tsipras entregasse os coelhoes num bandeja, e se para esse espactáculo fosse preciso pagar 200 ou 300 bilioes pelo bilhete não havia problema.  Mas não é que o guião, ainda não está escrito, e há a possibilidade da cena final ser qq coisa de banal sem grandes cenas catársicas, nem gritos de pranta. Assim não tem piada, domos roubados, queremos o dinheiro do bilhete de volta  ;D

Vi há pouco a TV. O nosso PM que ainda há dias fazia peito a apelos de voz grossa à necessidade histórica do cumprimento, parecia muito cauteloso.

Incognitus

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Re: Grécia - Tópico principal
« Responder #5983 em: 2015-06-30 00:40:22 »
Se a Europa quisesse, a Europa (e Portugal) eram pagos de volta. Bastaria colocar uma taxa em tudo o que fosse importação vinda da Grécia.

A Europa é muito boazinha.

Mas se há algum respeito pelo povo de Portugal, então forçosamente temos que ter mais pena de nós, que vamos levar com um calote de 1000 milhões, do que dos Gregos, que fazem calote atrás de calote a toda a gente, incluindo a nós. Nem se percebe bem porque é que ainda há alguma dúvida quanto a isto. Fala-se como se os caloteiros fossem anjos ou algo do género. Como se todos os outros existissem para os servir.

---------

Querer a Grécia fora do Euro é natural, é óbvio que a Grécia tem uma apetência para usar todos os mecanismos possíveis para defraudar os outros países, e o uso do BCE dá-lhe mais um mecanismo explorável nesse sentido.
« Última modificação: 2015-06-30 00:43:06 por Incognitus »
"Nem tudo o que pode ser contado conta, e nem tudo o que conta pode ser contado.", Albert Einstein

Incognitus, www.thinkfn.com

Zenith

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Re: Grécia - Tópico principal
« Responder #5984 em: 2015-06-30 00:42:29 »
Eu tmbém acho que devemos estar preocupados, mas há uma semana atrás isso era o que menos interessava.

Incognitus

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Re: Grécia - Tópico principal
« Responder #5985 em: 2015-06-30 00:44:45 »
Eu tmbém acho que devemos estar preocupados, mas há uma semana atrás isso era o que menos interessava.

Há uma semana atrás já a Grécia andava à procura de forma de dar o calote.

E há quem esteja bem pior que nós. Mas isto é uma coisa distante e conceptual, o pessoal não se vai chatear muito.

Ainda assim, 1000 milhões é grosso modo o montante que gera um serviço de dívida que equivale a pagar o serviço público de Televisão. Pelo que ainda não nos livrámos de um e já estamos prestes a ter o custo de dois.

-------

Quando não estamos a ser enganados por corruptos internos, estamos a ser enganados por Gregos. Não vai ser fácil este país endireitar-se.
« Última modificação: 2015-06-30 01:13:20 por Incognitus »
"Nem tudo o que pode ser contado conta, e nem tudo o que conta pode ser contado.", Albert Einstein

Incognitus, www.thinkfn.com

Lark

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Re: Grécia - Tópico principal
« Responder #5986 em: 2015-06-30 01:40:01 »
Se a Europa quisesse, a Europa (e Portugal) eram pagos de volta. Bastaria colocar uma taxa em tudo o que fosse importação vinda da Grécia.

Não é possível via tratados.
Só alterando os tratados.
O que tem que ser feito por unanimidade.
o que nunca aconteceria.
a europa meteu-se a si própria numa camisa de  forças.

e há também há um tribunal europeu que vela pelo cumprimento dos tratados.
não basta querer. tem que poder. não pode.

L

« Última modificação: 2015-06-30 01:40:27 por Lark »
Be Kind; Everyone You Meet is Fighting a Battle.
Ian Mclaren
------------------------------
If you have more than you need, build a longer table rather than a taller fence.
l6l803399
-------------------------------------------
So, first of all, let me assert my firm belief that the only thing we have to fear is...fear itself — nameless, unreasoning, unjustified terror which paralyzes needed efforts to convert retreat into advance.
Franklin D. Roosevelt

Incognitus

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Re: Grécia - Tópico principal
« Responder #5987 em: 2015-06-30 01:45:26 »
Enfim, chateia um bocado ver este género de esquemas a esta escala. A Grécia no esquema todo, diga-se, portou-se como um profissional. Até neste último pedido de uma extensão (que já não passou). O que Varoufakis e o Tsipras se devem ter rido a portas fechadas com o esquema de secar o BCE via os levantamentos dos Gregos.
"Nem tudo o que pode ser contado conta, e nem tudo o que conta pode ser contado.", Albert Einstein

Incognitus, www.thinkfn.com

Lark

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Re: Grécia - Tópico principal
« Responder #5988 em: 2015-06-30 01:48:16 »
Ainda assim, 1000 milhões é grosso modo o montante que gera um serviço de dívida os por Gregos. Não vai ser fácil este país endireitar-se.

tens ideia onde se pode consultar o quanto o como e o porquê desse empréstimo?

L
Be Kind; Everyone You Meet is Fighting a Battle.
Ian Mclaren
------------------------------
If you have more than you need, build a longer table rather than a taller fence.
l6l803399
-------------------------------------------
So, first of all, let me assert my firm belief that the only thing we have to fear is...fear itself — nameless, unreasoning, unjustified terror which paralyzes needed efforts to convert retreat into advance.
Franklin D. Roosevelt

Kin2010

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Re: Grécia - Tópico principal
« Responder #5989 em: 2015-06-30 01:57:23 »
Acho que a mensagem é clara: ele demite-se e são convocadas novas eleições.
Numa futura campanha já não podem ser apenas contra a austeridade, que não chegou a lado nenhum. Têm explicitamente de propor aos eleitores que a Grécia saia do euro.
Aí, sim, é que se veria o que é que os gregos preferem (austeridade vs sair do euro). Este referendo é apenas um passo intermédio. Mais valia terem-se demitido já.

O absurdo não está só aí! Pior que isso é que se ganhar o não eles demitem-se, sim, mas provavelmente ainda concorrem às eleições a seguir! E se calhar ganham. E depois voltam  negociar com a UE. E depois marcam novo referendo. Etc, etc. É um abuso da paciência dos outros europeus.

Ou seja, não vale a pena qualquer país ou a UE celebrar algum tratado com a Grécia; na próxima eleição vem um governo que renega nesse tratado, fica meses a chantagear, depois à última da hora quando parecia estar um acordo à vista marca um referendo, depois desse novas eleições, novas chantagens, novo referendo... Onde é que se pode celebrar tratados com estes tipos?

E ironicamente eles acham que assim estão a "recuperar a dignidade do povo grego", a evitar a "humilhação", etc, etc. Eu acho que é a própria dignidade do povo grego qu sai muito mal vista disto.


Incognitus

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Re: Grécia - Tópico principal
« Responder #5990 em: 2015-06-30 02:03:53 »
Ainda assim, 1000 milhões é grosso modo o montante que gera um serviço de dívida os por Gregos. Não vai ser fácil este país endireitar-se.


tens ideia onde se pode consultar o quanto o como e o porquê desse empréstimo?

L


Tens aqui, são dos empréstimos mais antigos:

http://observador.pt/especiais/se-grecia-nao-pagar-divida-nao-paga-quem/

Curiosamente tivémos sorte, pois os outros membros da UE estão mais expostos via mecanismos mais recentes de que Portugal ficou afastado por também estar sob um programa.
"Nem tudo o que pode ser contado conta, e nem tudo o que conta pode ser contado.", Albert Einstein

Incognitus, www.thinkfn.com

Lark

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Re: Grécia - Tópico principal
« Responder #5991 em: 2015-06-30 02:09:42 »
Ainda assim, 1000 milhões é grosso modo o montante que gera um serviço de dívida os por Gregos. Não vai ser fácil este país endireitar-se.


tens ideia onde se pode consultar o quanto o como e o porquê desse empréstimo?

L


Tens aqui, são dos empréstimos mais antigos:

http://observador.pt/especiais/se-grecia-nao-pagar-divida-nao-paga-quem/

Curiosamente tivémos sorte, pois os outros membros da UE estão mais expostos via mecanismos mais recentes de que Portugal ficou afastado por também estar sob um programa.


obrigado.

L
Be Kind; Everyone You Meet is Fighting a Battle.
Ian Mclaren
------------------------------
If you have more than you need, build a longer table rather than a taller fence.
l6l803399
-------------------------------------------
So, first of all, let me assert my firm belief that the only thing we have to fear is...fear itself — nameless, unreasoning, unjustified terror which paralyzes needed efforts to convert retreat into advance.
Franklin D. Roosevelt

Lark

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Re: Grécia - Tópico principal
« Responder #5992 em: 2015-06-30 02:53:08 »
Greeks Line Up for Money and Stock Up on Goods as Cash Rationing Starts

ATHENS — Uncertain what might happen next, with banks and financial markets closed, across Athens people wasted little time Monday, rushing to the nearest A.T.M. to withdraw their new daily maximum of 60 euros, determined to raise every last cent while they could.

Yet, even as Greeks faced a new level of chaos and hardship this week, they were being confronted with another unsolvable riddle: a vote on their future that was even more uncertain than the current chaos.

“Simply put, we’re confused,” Eleni Gardikioti, 31, an insurance worker, said. “We don’t understand what games they are playing, whether to stay or go and whether there is a permanent goal in all that.”

There were good arguments on each side, she said, as she fished out a coin to give to a beggar.

In a referendum on Sunday, Greeks will be asked to decide whether to accept a take-it-or-leave-it bailout offer by the country’s creditors, and remain mired in austerity in the eurozone, or reject the deal but suffer the consequences of leaving the euro.

The question is not as simple as it might sound. For one, the bailout offer has already been withdrawn by the eurozone’s finance ministers, so it is not clear the parties could reach a deal now even if Greece voted in favor.

Prime Minister Alexis Tsipras clouded the matter further on Monday by saying a vote against the deal would not necessarily mean abandoning the euro, but rather would give him leverage to negotiate a better agreement with Greece’s creditors — other European Union nations, the International Monetary Fund and the European Central Bank.

Anecdotally, how people said they would vote in the referendum had little to do with those considerations, but broke down largely along lines of age and class. Older and more affluent Greeks leaned toward voting yes and younger and poorer Greeks leaned toward no, essentially as a protest of what they viewed as foreign oppression.

Whatever the outcome, Athenians were busy adapting to the new reality on Monday, focusing more on getting through the week than worrying too far into the future. People were emptying supermarket shelves, filling up containers at gas stations and lining up at automated teller machines, hoping that the supply of hard cash would not run out before it was their turn.

Greeks lined up on Monday at banks, which were ordered closed, with daily A.T.M. withdrawals limited to 60 euros, or about $67. Credit Petros Giannakouris/Associated Press
Athenians everywhere wore looks of anxiety, despite a pleasantly cool summer day.

Over the last few weeks, Greeks have withdrawn billions of euros from the banking system, leading to capital controls. On Monday, customers found many cash machines shut down until noon to be reprogrammed with the new limit. For hours after the machines began operating again, people stood in line, waiting to receive their rations of cash.

Standing outside the cash machines seemed to have a counterintuitive effect on some people, hardening them against the European creditors rather than making them angry at their own government.

“We’re all happy with Tsipras!” said Eleni Hartofilaka, waiting to take her €60 (about $67) out of an Alpha Bank branch. “We’re happy for the Europeans to learn not to be on top of us.”

For some, the word “no,” or “Oxi” in Greek, has a historical symbolism that makes it even more appealing in the present context. As every Greek schoolchild knows, the annual Oxi Day commemorates the answer, in spirit if not verbatim, delivered by Prime Minister Ioannis Metaxas to a demand from Mussolini to allow Italian forces to occupy strategic parts of Greece at the beginning of World War II.

Ms. Gardikioti said that she and her boyfriend had limited savings and little to lose. Even if a no vote meant a retreat to the previous Greek currency, the drachma, after a period of hardship, the Greeks would recover.

At the Evangelismos Metro station near Central Athens, Dimitra Papaioannou, 30, had just taken a free subway ride, after coming to the city by bus from the northern town of Larissa to visit her doctor. She had arrived in Athens with almost no cash because the A.T.M.’s in her hometown had been bled dry.

She said she had not decided whether she would vote on Sunday, but if she did, she would vote no to the European bailout proposal. Unlike city folk, she could be self-sufficient, she said, rolling a cigarette.

“I will go to the village and dig to live,” she said. “I believe no one should fear. Here in Athens, they will go hungry. In the village we have our field, a chicken. Of course, doctors we won’t have, or maybe.”

A few blocks away, the A/B Vasilopoulos supermarket, a major chain, was mobbed, as though a major hurricane were on the way. A cashier said she was exhausted as she rang up groceries at lunchtime. “You should have seen it this morning,” she said.

Discounted Pampers were sold out, and people were forced to buy the more expensive version. Housewives were leaving with gigantic bundles of toilet paper. The cheapest brands of olive oil and pasta had sold out. Stock clerks were everywhere, replenishing supplies of everything from sugar to frozen vegetables.

“Don’t panic,” one woman urged another, as she picked over the noodles. “I think the Greek companies like Misko will still be producing pasta even if we cannot import it.” Italian ravioli, she added, examining a package, maybe not.

Several people said that the general mood had become so distressed and polarized that people were talking about the possibility of civil war. Mr. Tsipras seemed to be alluding to such fears in his brief speech Sunday night announcing the capital controls. He urged “dignity” and “calm” and echoing Franklin D. Roosevelt, said “Our only fear is fear.”

At a small but elegant antiques store, Art & Craft, the proprietor, Miltiades Macrygiannis, actually had a customer, though, he noted after she left, she spoke Greek with an accent, indicating that she was foreign.

Surrounded by hanging lamps, carved mirrors, old worry beads and objects bearing the evil eye, to ward away evil, Mr. Macrygiannis said that like most businesses, he could not get cash to replenish his stock now that cash controls were in effect.

He planned to vote yes, but reluctantly, as the lesser of two bad choices. “I wouldn’t imagine, even as a nightmare, the scenario of going back to the drachma,” Mr. Macrygiannis said. “It would take 10 years to get us back on our feet again.”

On the other hand, “You can say yes to this agreement, a very painful agreement, and it means too many taxes, cutting down on pensions.”

Those who will gain, he said, are the superrich who have squirreled away their euros in Switzerland or the Virgin Islands, and will be able to swoop in to buy devalued goods and property.

What upset him most, he said, was the uncertainty. “The Greek government right now, they don’t give me the next day,” he said. “They ask us to vote no. Then at least tell me what is going to happen the day after.”

He added: “We fought to be in the European Union for so many years. Greece will not be in Europe but countries like Bulgaria and Romania will? It sounds like a bad joke.”

nyt
Be Kind; Everyone You Meet is Fighting a Battle.
Ian Mclaren
------------------------------
If you have more than you need, build a longer table rather than a taller fence.
l6l803399
-------------------------------------------
So, first of all, let me assert my firm belief that the only thing we have to fear is...fear itself — nameless, unreasoning, unjustified terror which paralyzes needed efforts to convert retreat into advance.
Franklin D. Roosevelt

Lark

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Re: Grécia - Tópico principal
« Responder #5993 em: 2015-06-30 04:07:23 »
pelos vistos houve mais uma oferta da parte da UE.

Juncker Says He Feels Betrayed by Greece
The president of the European Commission, Jean-Claude Juncker, said the momentum in negotiations between Greece and its international creditors had been shattered by the announcement of a referendum.

BRUSSELS — Seeking to calm a whirlwind of uncertainty that has battered global markets, opened deep fissures in European unity and threatened to push Greece out of the eurozone, European leaders insisted on Monday that a deal was still possible to settle Greece’s spiraling debt crisis. But they gave no indication that this could happen before Athens runs out of cash to pay loans due on Tuesday.

With only a day left before Greece’s current bailout package expires and the deadline arrives for a loan repayment of about $1.8 billion, alarm that it might miss the payment and eventually crash out of the group of 19 countries that use the euro prompted a flurry of statements from Brussels and major European leaders. They mixed reassurance and rebukes directed at Greece’s left-wing government with grave warnings that Europe’s future was at stake.

Chancellor Angela Merkel of Germany, Europe’s dominant figure, spoke out twice on the Greek crisis, and both times revived a phrase she used years ago, during another financial storm set off by Greece: “If the euro fails, Europe fails.” This means, she said, that “we have principles” that reflect “the trust we have in each other,” but also that “we must always seek compromise.”

The Greek government closed b anks and stock markets in an attempt to keep the country’s financial system afloat after the European Central Bank announced Sunday that it would not increase emergency funding to Greek banks. That decision sent Greeks rushing to A.T.M.s to withdraw cash, though they were limited to 60 euros, about $67.

Late Monday, Jean-Claude Juncker, the head of the European Union’s executive branch, offered the Greek prime minister, Alex Tsipras, a last-minute proposal that offered the possibility of a concession on demands for cuts in bonus payments for the poorest pensioners, European officials said. In return, however, Mr. Tsipras would have to accept all of the other creditors’ demands, which he had already turned down, and request an emergency meeting of eurozone finance ministers on Tuesday.


Greek officials said they had received Mr. Juncker’s proposal but did not say how the government would respond.

In an interview on Greek state television on Monday night, Mr. Tsipras strongly suggested that Greece would not make the payment to the International Monetary Fund on Tuesday, and seemed to express surprise that the fund expected to be paid. “How is it possible the creditors are waiting for the I.M.F. payment while our banks are being asphyxiated?” he said. “If they decide to stop the asphyxiation, the installments will be paid.”

After five months of fruitless and increasingly ill-tempered talks with creditors, Mr. Tsipras threw the search for an agreement, and his country’s banking system, into turmoil early Saturday by announcing a referendum for Sunday on whether to accept proposals his government has rejected. Government officials said early Tuesday that Mr. Tsipras would vote “no” on Sunday.

In Athens, thousands of demonstrators, encouraged by the governing Syriza party, gathered in Syntagma Square, waving flags, banging drums and chanting against austerity.

Some analysts warned Monday that the tussle could drag into late July, when Greece owes the European Central Bank €3.5 billion for purchases of Greek government bonds.

“The real hard stop for the Greek government is the E.C.B.’s repayment on July 20,” said Mujtaba Rahman, the Europe director for the Eurasia Group, a political risk consulting firm.

While insisting that Greece must stay within Europe’s common currency and the 28-nation European Union, Mr. Juncker displayed the depth of anger in Brussels and elsewhere at Greece’s leftist government, complaining earlier Monday that he felt “betrayed” by Athens and that negotiations were “not a game of liar’s poker.”

President François Hollande of France assured Greece and financial markets that an agreement was still possible and that Paris wanted Greece to stay in the euro, while also assuring the French public that it would be safe from the turbulence that shook Europe four years ago, when it last looked as if Greece might drop out of the euro.

France, Mr. Hollande said in a statement, “has nothing to fear from what could happen.”

An aide to the French president, speaking on the condition of anonymity to discuss diplomatic matters, said Mr. Hollande had spoken by telephone with President Obama. “They agreed to pool their efforts to facilitate a resumption of the talks so as to find a solution to the crisis as soon as possible and ensure Greece’s financial stability,” the aide said.

Global markets showed anxiety but no immediate signs of panic. Stocks slumped modestly on Monday at the opening on Wall Street, after markets in Asia and Europe were battered by worries that the Greek financial crisis would prove contagious and Chinese investors endured another topsy-turvy session.

Ms. Merkel, at a news conference in her chancellery in Berlin after meeting with Germany’s political leaders, said Greece, by interrupting talks and deciding on a referendum, had shown no willingness to compromise.

It was clear from her demeanor and her meetings with the party leaders that Ms. Merkel did not want Greece to leave the euro or to see European unity fail.

Mr. Juncker, looking to avoid responsibility in the event of a rupture between Greece and Europe, accused Mr. Tsipras of acting in bad faith. “All elements were on the table,” he said in Brussels. But, he added, Mr. Tsipras “left the talks at the worst moment” and without warning.

In an unusually blunt critique of a member government, Mr. Juncker said Mr. Tsipras’s negotiating tactics were “not worthy of the great Greek nation.”

Ms. Merkel, who has been in power almost a decade and has been criticized in the Greek crisis for rigidly advocating austerity, advised against appearing to tell the Greeks how to vote. “They are mature citizens” and can make up their own minds, she said, calling the crisis a “decisive challenge” for Europe.

Europe is better equipped to deal with that challenge than it was a few years ago, she added, voicing confidence that the euro was stable and secure.

Sigmar Gabriel, head of Germany’s Social Democrats, said European unity was facing its greatest crisis in 60 years. He stopped short, however, of echoing calls from the German opposition for heads of state and government to meet as soon as possible. He stressed that Greece was not the only crisis facing Europe and cited the flow of migrants and the rise of nationalist movements.

“Europe cannot give permanent financial aid with no conditions,” he said.

nyt
Be Kind; Everyone You Meet is Fighting a Battle.
Ian Mclaren
------------------------------
If you have more than you need, build a longer table rather than a taller fence.
l6l803399
-------------------------------------------
So, first of all, let me assert my firm belief that the only thing we have to fear is...fear itself — nameless, unreasoning, unjustified terror which paralyzes needed efforts to convert retreat into advance.
Franklin D. Roosevelt

Kin2010

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Re: Grécia - Tópico principal
« Responder #5994 em: 2015-06-30 04:34:14 »

By Prokopis Hatzinikolaou, Ekathimerini
 
The imposition of measures restricting transactions was accompanied on Monday by a total freeze in the payments of citizens’ obligations to the state, while there was also an impact on the payment of pensions and private sector salaries.

The public coffers, social security funds, the private sector, retail sales and tourism are in an unprecedented state, as the restrictions effectively prevent any transactions, while fears of a credit crunch in the coming days have discouraged even those who have cash from making any purchases or settling their obligations, as they don’t know what will come next.

On Monday some major social security funds did not pay the pensions due and certain enterprises informed their employees that their monthly salaries would not be paid, without specifying when that would happen.

Under the circumstances, it is also highly unlikely that the state will be able to pay the salaries and pensions due at the end of next month, as tax payments have stopped and the coffers have run dry. State General Accounting Office sources said that the last hope for the payment of next month’s salaries and pensions had been the payment of value-added tax, but accountants say major firms have ordered them not to submit VAT statements or pay their taxes.
 
 
 
 



 
 

Kin2010

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Re: Grécia - Tópico principal
« Responder #5995 em: 2015-06-30 04:39:07 »
Portanto já está a haver sinais de colapso social. Pensões a não ser pagas, devedores a adiarem pagamentos para manter o cash. Mesmo empresas privadas a fazer isso. Isto, somado a uma maioria de artigos de opinião no Ekathimerini que acham a presente situação uma loucura e são a favor do Sim, poderá pesar. Esse jornal também faz eco do que disseram hoje os líderes europeus, que o Não significa retorno ao dracma. As elites que escrevem nos jornais parecem mais a favor do Sim.


Lark

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Re: Grécia - Tópico principal
« Responder #5996 em: 2015-06-30 04:58:10 »
As elites que escrevem nos jornais parecem mais a favor do Sim.

no kathimerini. é um jornal que pende para a direita grega.

L
Be Kind; Everyone You Meet is Fighting a Battle.
Ian Mclaren
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If you have more than you need, build a longer table rather than a taller fence.
l6l803399
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So, first of all, let me assert my firm belief that the only thing we have to fear is...fear itself — nameless, unreasoning, unjustified terror which paralyzes needed efforts to convert retreat into advance.
Franklin D. Roosevelt

vbm

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Re: Grécia - Tópico principal
« Responder #5997 em: 2015-06-30 06:35:28 »
Parece que já está a discutir-se uma proposta diferente que permita ao governo grego não recomendar o <não> ao acordo, suavizando medidas nele incluídas, e reiterando que todos querem a Grécia na União Europeia e na moeda própria comum.

Acho tudo muito bem, desde que tudo mude na maneira de se fazerem as coisas na Europa. (A começar por colocar os petrolíferos sunitas de cócaras, desarmados, com os europeus conjugados com os americanos).


Aproveito para uns esclarecimentos telegráficos: i) Sim, os alemães não vendem gadgets; só coisas boas, em que a queda actual  do euro até os ajuda a vender mais; porém, os alemães podem continuar a ter lucros desde que empreguem europeus fora da Alemanha; Portugal é um exemplo; a estender, não só na União, mas até cá no burgo de Portucale e arredores; ii) Por mim, não busco impor um  gosto específico à generalidade das pessoas; porém, a democracia é defeituosa se não desenvolve a craveira intelectual média da população através da instrução e do bom gosto estético e ético; é preciso tomar consciência que as sociedades sempre  tiveram historicamente três partidos: o do povo, o dos nobres, o dos clérigos; a revolução francesa aboliu dois e  manteve o do povo; este tende a espoliar e sufocar qualquer argumentação dedutível de valores diferentes dos da utilidade imediata; por exemplo, a meritocracia é tolhida porque se diminui quem seja diferente do homem comum e digno de mais consideração;  outro exemplo, posto nada haver sagrado, tudo se valoriza segundo a saúde do corpo: assim, não se leva a vida disciplinada por uma motivação interior quase do tipo religioso, mas apenas pela ideia volúvel de que faz bem ou mal à saúde; e o absurdo de ditaduras higiénicas instala-se com intolerância nazi; iii) enfim, há mais particularidades relevantes a aduzir; mas as duas indicadas, já dão a ideia do prejuízo que causa a democracia unidimensional do falso interesse do povo.

Automek

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Re: Grécia - Tópico principal
« Responder #5998 em: 2015-06-30 08:43:40 »
O Juncker terá feito uma última proposta ao Tsipras de eliminar a exigência dos cortes nas pensões mais baixas e uma possibilidade de reestruturar a dívida grega em Outubro mas ele rejeitou

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FXStreet (Bali) - There has been reports late in the US session, via a twitter source - not confirmed by other sources - , that EU President Juncker sent a last minute offer to Greece. Just hitting the wires though, Greek newspaper Kathimerini is now reporting that Greek PM Tsipras’ government has rejected that last-minute Juncker proposal.
http://www.fxstreet.com/news/forex-news/article.aspx?storyid=2dbbb2e2-ffeb-4371-9e6e-130f4dedef75

pedferre

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Re: Grécia - Tópico principal
« Responder #5999 em: 2015-06-30 08:47:44 »
Bem o aldrabão mor (Tsipras) já está a ficar com medo de perder o referendo por isso já usa golpadas, agora diz que votar não ainda e melhor porque assim lhe dá mais poder negocial para lidar com a UE, já anda nisto a 5 meses e deu no que deu... :)