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Zel

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Re: Investir na Grécia
« Responder #3080 em: 2015-05-02 16:05:20 »
o unico gajo com cabeca naquele programa eh o lobo xavier

vbm

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Re: Investir na Grécia
« Responder #3081 em: 2015-05-02 17:18:49 »
Não concordo. Talvez o Lobo Xavier seja o mais contemporizador e distressante, mas está longe de ser o melhor. É opinião vulgar censurar quem intelectualmente desata a destituir os pressupostos das conclusões que depois se deduzem daí. Pacheco pereira fá-lo sistematicamente e tem razão. Pode é não convencer muitos, por a sua própria linha de argumentação vir coxa de quesitos necessários para surtir os efeitos desejáveis. Mas isso é outra história e eu aplaudo sempre que ele desnuda pela crítica a inanidade dos fundamentos dos outros. Sempre assim o apreciei, mesmo quando virava e virou a crítica a governos ditos socialistas e aos meros comunistas. Eu fiquei a semana passada um pouco chocado quando ele arrasou o PS por ter condicionado o partido político à análise prévia (tipo «censura prévia») da viabilidade macroeconómica de n medidas políticas, asseverando que tal era uma demissão  da tarefa do que é ser político. Chocou-me porque as políticasnão devem violar as 'leis' (equilíbrios) económicas, tão consequentalistas de benefícios e malefícios quanto (aproximadamente) asleis físicas. No entanto, ele tem razão em denunciar que a política não é fazer aquelas e outras contas. Isso que o façam os economistas e se oponham e demitam e clamem se for o caso. Porque, político é propor para o País o tipo de pessoas, de actividades, de prioridades deve implantar, generalizar, gerar, estrategicamente para bem de todos, e argumentar porquê essa é a via mais frutuosa, e que alianças requer, e quem deve conter e cercar, e quem favorecer e em que medida. E isso é política. Não é ser empresário. Nem duopolista. Nem vender com descontos no dia 1º de Maio. Nem esmifrar lavradores e consumidores. Nem andar a protestar que não querem vender gasolina low cost. Nem quererem 20% da Tap. LOL. Ninguém percebe uma coisa tão simples? Pois façam o que lhes compete: adaptem-se ao que o soberano (legítimo) determine, que essa é a sua missão, aquela por foi (é, será, ou não) escolhido. A nós, o espírito e a  inteligência de concordar ou discordar e porquê. Isto é assim à pressa, porque vou agora ao aeroporto. Ciao.

Incognitus

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Re: Investir na Grécia
« Responder #3082 em: 2015-05-02 17:25:06 »
Não concordo. Talvez o Lobo Xavier seja o mais contemporizador e distressante, mas está longe de ser o melhor. É opinião vulgar censurar quem intelectualmente desata a destituir os pressupostos das conclusões que depois se deduzem daí. Pacheco pereira fá-lo sistematicamente e tem razão. Pode é não convencer muitos, por a sua própria linha de argumentação vir coxa de quesitos necessários para surtir os efeitos desejáveis. Mas isso é outra história e eu aplaudo sempre que ele desnuda pela crítica a inanidade dos fundamentos dos outros. Sempre assim o apreciei, mesmo quando virava e virou a crítica a governos ditos socialistas e aos meros comunistas. Eu fiquei a semana passada um pouco chocado quando ele arrasou o PS por ter condicionado o partido político à análise prévia (tipo «censura prévia») da viabilidade macroeconómica de n medidas políticas, asseverando que tal era uma demissão  da tarefa do que é ser político. Chocou-me porque as políticasnão devem violar as 'leis' (equilíbrios) económicas, tão consequentalistas de benefícios e malefícios quanto (aproximadamente) asleis físicas. No entanto, ele tem razão em denunciar que a política não é fazer aquelas e outras contas. Isso que o façam os economistas e se oponham e demitam e clamem se for o caso. Porque, político é propor para o País o tipo de pessoas, de actividades, de prioridades deve implantar, generalizar, gerar, estrategicamente para bem de todos, e argumentar porquê essa é a via mais frutuosa, e que alianças requer, e quem deve conter e cercar, e quem favorecer e em que medida. E isso é política. Não é ser empresário. Nem duopolista. Nem vender com descontos no dia 1º de Maio. Nem esmifrar lavradores e consumidores. Nem andar a protestar que não querem vender gasolina low cost. Nem quererem 20% da Tap. LOL. Ninguém percebe uma coisa tão simples? Pois façam o que lhes compete: adaptem-se ao que o soberano (legítimo) determine, que essa é a sua missão, aquela por foi (é, será, ou não) escolhido. A nós, o espírito e a  inteligência de concordar ou discordar e porquê. Isto é assim à pressa, porque vou agora ao aeroporto. Ciao.

Isso é ser um político atrasado mental.

Um político sério tenta escolher menos coisas e criar mais condições para que as pessoas em geral as escolham. Com excepções, certamente, mas essas já são mais imutáveis no tempo e estruturantes. Coisas consensuais como educação gratuita para todos, saúde gratuita para todos, justiça gratuita para todos, segurança gratuita para todos, etc.

Ao tentar andar a pensar demasiado no que é bom para os outros, não só se acaba a regulamentar e intervir em demasiadas coisas, como se demite (como se vê) de alcançar coisas básicas de forma justa e equalitária. O resultado final é um nível de vida inferior e um monte de gente a ter que emigrar, e mais outro monte de gente desempregada e ainda outro monte de gente com dificuldade em arrendar e por aí adiante.

--------

E vbm, no fim são as pessoas a prestarem serviços umas às outras que geram o melhor nível de vida. Não é o brilhantismo de um político. O político só é brilhante se gerar um sistema que maximiza o funcionamento das pessoas a prestarem serviços umas às outras.

Aparte de gerarem instituições básicas funcionais, os políticos quase só podem mais meterem-se na frente do progresso do que alimentá-lo.
« Última modificação: 2015-05-02 17:27:43 por Incognitus »
"Nem tudo o que pode ser contado conta, e nem tudo o que conta pode ser contado.", Albert Einstein

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Lark

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Re: Investir na Grécia
« Responder #3083 em: 2015-05-02 18:09:10 »
Não concordo. Talvez o Lobo Xavier seja o mais contemporizador e distressante, mas está longe de ser o melhor. É opinião vulgar censurar quem intelectualmente desata a destituir os pressupostos das conclusões que depois se deduzem daí. Pacheco pereira fá-lo sistematicamente e tem razão. Pode é não convencer muitos, por a sua própria linha de argumentação vir coxa de quesitos necessários para surtir os efeitos desejáveis. Mas isso é outra história e eu aplaudo sempre que ele desnuda pela crítica a inanidade dos fundamentos dos outros. Sempre assim o apreciei, mesmo quando virava e virou a crítica a governos ditos socialistas e aos meros comunistas. Eu fiquei a semana passada um pouco chocado quando ele arrasou o PS por ter condicionado o partido político à análise prévia (tipo «censura prévia») da viabilidade macroeconómica de n medidas políticas, asseverando que tal era uma demissão  da tarefa do que é ser político. Chocou-me porque as políticasnão devem violar as 'leis' (equilíbrios) económicas, tão consequentalistas de benefícios e malefícios quanto (aproximadamente) asleis físicas. No entanto, ele tem razão em denunciar que a política não é fazer aquelas e outras contas. Isso que o façam os economistas e se oponham e demitam e clamem se for o caso. Porque, político é propor para o País o tipo de pessoas, de actividades, de prioridades deve implantar, generalizar, gerar, estrategicamente para bem de todos, e argumentar porquê essa é a via mais frutuosa, e que alianças requer, e quem deve conter e cercar, e quem favorecer e em que medida. E isso é política. Não é ser empresário. Nem duopolista. Nem vender com descontos no dia 1º de Maio. Nem esmifrar lavradores e consumidores. Nem andar a protestar que não querem vender gasolina low cost. Nem quererem 20% da Tap. LOL. Ninguém percebe uma coisa tão simples? Pois façam o que lhes compete: adaptem-se ao que o soberano (legítimo) determine, que essa é a sua missão, aquela por foi (é, será, ou não) escolhido. A nós, o espírito e a  inteligência de concordar ou discordar e porquê. Isto é assim à pressa, porque vou agora ao aeroporto. Ciao.


o pacheco pereira deve ser um dos políticos mais corajosos intelectualmente deste país. senão o mais corajoso.
começou no PCP (m-l), extrema esquerda maoista, fez o seu percurso para a direita e foi e é militante do PSD - embora neste momento eu não perceba porquê nem para quê. no tempo de sá carneiro ainda se compreendia - o percurso de muitos neo-conservadores mas nunca se acomodou e não tem problemas em arrasar os neoconservadores contemporâneos.
poucos políticos, se nenhum, admitem os erros passados - principalmente este erro da deriva para o neo conservadorismo - como a defesa da guerra do iraque, e presentes, como a afirmação constante da inflação ao virar da esquina e o debasement da moeda e outras tretas libertárias afins.

ele nunca teve medo de reconhecer que errou, de mudar a sua opinião contradizendo-se a si próprio, de tomar posições de extrema dificuldade de defender intelectualmente.

como ainda há poucos dias li, um dos maiores políticos do sec xx, FDR, disse
Citar
the country demands bold, persistent experimentation. It is common sense to take a method and try it: If it fails, admit it frankly and try another. But above all, try something.

poucos o fazem. o pacheco pereira-fá-lo. admiro-o por isso.

o ódiozinho de estimação que para aqui vai grassando em relação e ele não é mais do que o habitual ódio da direita pela intelectualidade. business as usual.

L
Be Kind; Everyone You Meet is Fighting a Battle.
Ian Mclaren
------------------------------
If you have more than you need, build a longer table rather than a taller fence.
l6l803399
-------------------------------------------
So, first of all, let me assert my firm belief that the only thing we have to fear is...fear itself — nameless, unreasoning, unjustified terror which paralyzes needed efforts to convert retreat into advance.
Franklin D. Roosevelt

Incognitus

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Re: Investir na Grécia
« Responder #3084 em: 2015-05-02 18:15:28 »
O ódio não é nem de direita, nem contra a intelectualidade.

É apenas um certo horror à falta dessa mesma intelectualidade. Sim, porque por "intelectualidade" entende-se conhecimento e não lirismo.

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Aliás, esquerda e intelectualidade juntas devem ser uma piada muitas vezes repetida. Uma boa parte da esquerda tem horror à matemática. Devem ver "intelectualidade" num bom monte de bosta, se têm horror à matemática.

Ainda há bocado colocaste um artigo todo catita em que claramente estavas a acreditar (aquilo das baterias e da poupança para produzir Marijuana). Como rapidamente mostrei, as contas estavam claramente erradas.

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O vbm gostar do Pacheco Pereira não espanta. Basta ver a sua aproximação "intelectual" ao problema do preço dos combustíveis, ao problema do preço dos alimentos e por aí adiante. São sempre os "monopólios" e não a racionalidade económica que lhe vêem à cabeça ... quando em todos esses casos é óbvio que é outra coisa qualquer que está na sua origem (impostos nos combustíveis; falta de atractividade económica na distribuição alimentar; etc).

Intelectualidade = racionalidade, não lirismo.
« Última modificação: 2015-05-02 18:23:48 por Incognitus »
"Nem tudo o que pode ser contado conta, e nem tudo o que conta pode ser contado.", Albert Einstein

Incognitus, www.thinkfn.com

vbm

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Re: Investir na Grécia
« Responder #3085 em: 2015-05-02 19:50:56 »
[ ]
E vbm, no fim são as pessoas a prestarem serviços umas às outras que geram o melhor nível de vida. Não é o brilhantismo de um político. O político só é brilhante se gerar um sistema que maximiza o funcionamento das pessoas a prestarem serviços umas às outras.
[ ]

Os governados carecem disso
e de serem governados;

o que não é só
prestarem serviços uns aos outros,

mas também vencerem o que os prejudique
colectivamente.

vbm

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Re: Investir na Grécia
« Responder #3086 em: 2015-05-02 19:58:16 »
[ ]
ele nunca teve medo de reconhecer que errou, de mudar a sua opinião contradizendo-se a si próprio, de tomar posições de extrema dificuldade de defender intelectualmente.

como ainda há poucos dias li, um dos maiores políticos do sec xx, FDR, disse
Citar
the country demands bold, persistent experimentation. It is common sense to take a method and try it: If it fails, admit it frankly and try another. But above all, try something.

poucos o fazem. o pacheco pereira-fá-lo. admiro-o por isso.

o ódiozinho de estimação que para aqui vai grassando em relação e ele não é mais do que o habitual ódio da direita pela intelectualidade. business as usual.

L

Justo o teu elogio de Pacheco Pereira.

Sempre o  admirei por essa independência,
que não é de hoje.

Sempre denunciou a mediocridade
da mediocracia jornalística e televisiva.

Aplaudo-o por isso.

Humano, Roosevelt, e bem requerido
o modo político de experimentar até acertar,
sem compadrio com vígaros e monopolistas.

Lark

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Re: Investir na Grécia
« Responder #3087 em: 2015-05-02 19:58:24 »

Ainda há bocado colocaste um artigo todo catita em que claramente estavas a acreditar (aquilo das baterias e da poupança para produzir Marijuana). Como rapidamente mostrei, as contas estavam claramente erradas.


coloquei o artigo por causa da piada da associação entre baterias/weed.
'tou-me borrifando se as contas estão erradas.
se é por isso retiro-o já.

e de onde é que tiras essa conclusão ousada de que eu estava a acreditar? nem sequer olhei para as contas. que argumento mais da treta.
se não achaste piada ok, não me venhas é com essa conversa.

e sim. a direita é bastante mais burra e ratardada que a esqueda. tem um um ódio visceral pela intelectualidade tal como se vê claramente por aqui. vou postar outra vez o ataque horroroso ao DeGrasse Tyson para se ver bem a espécie de gente que são.

L
Be Kind; Everyone You Meet is Fighting a Battle.
Ian Mclaren
------------------------------
If you have more than you need, build a longer table rather than a taller fence.
l6l803399
-------------------------------------------
So, first of all, let me assert my firm belief that the only thing we have to fear is...fear itself — nameless, unreasoning, unjustified terror which paralyzes needed efforts to convert retreat into advance.
Franklin D. Roosevelt

Lark

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Re: Investir na Grécia
« Responder #3088 em: 2015-05-02 20:00:26 »
só é inteligível para a direita que souber inglês claro:

Porque são extremamente inteligentes e os conservadores dão-se mal com a intelectualidade?


Um artigo exemplificativo da aversão dos conservadores pela intectualidade:

Smarter than Thou
Neil deGrasse Tyson and America’s nerd problem

‘My great fear,” Neil deGrasse Tyson told MSNBC’s Chris Hayes in early June, “is that we’ve in fact been visited by intelligent aliens but they chose not to make contact, on the conclusion that there’s no sign of intelligent life on Earth.”

In response to this rather standard little saw, Hayes laughed as if he had been trying marijuana for the first time. All told, one suspects that Tyson was not including either himself or a fellow traveler such as Hayes as inhabitants of Earth, but was instead referring to everybody who is not in their coterie. That, alas, is his way. An astrophysicist and evangelist for science, Tyson currently plays three roles in our society: He is the director of the Hayden Planetarium at the New York Science Museum; the presenter of the hip new show Cosmos; and, most important of all perhaps — albeit through no distinct fault of his own — he is the fetish and totem of the extraordinarily puffed-up “nerd” culture that has of late started to bloom across the United States.

One part insecure hipsterism, one part unwarranted condescension, the two defining characteristics of self-professed nerds are (a) the belief that one can discover all of the secrets of human experience through differential equations and (b) the unlovely tendency to presume themselves to be smarter than everybody else in the world. Prominent examples include MSNBC’s Melissa Harris-Perry, Rachel Maddow, Steve Kornacki, and Chris Hayes; Vox’s Ezra Klein, Dylan Matthews, and Matt Yglesias; the sabermetrician Nate Silver; the economist Paul Krugman; the atheist Richard Dawkins; former vice president Al Gore; celebrity scientist Bill Nye; and, really, anybody who conforms to the Left’s social and moral precepts while wearing glasses and babbling about statistics.

The pose is, of course, little more than a ruse — our professional “nerds” being, like Mrs. Doubtfire, stereotypical facsimiles of the real thing. They have the patois but not the passion; the clothes but not the style; the posture but not the imprimatur. Theirs is the nerd-dom of Star Wars, not Star Trek; of Mario Kart and not World of Warcraft; of the latest X-Men movie rather than the comics themselves. A sketch from the TV show Portlandia, mocked up as a public-service announcement, makes this point brutally. After a gorgeous young woman explains at a bar that she doesn’t think her job as a model is “her thing” and instead identifies as “a nerd” who is “into video games and comic books and stuff,” a dorky-looking man gets up and confesses that he is, in fact, a “real” nerd — someone who wears glasses “to see,” who is “shy,” and who “isn’t wearing a nerd costume for Halloween” but is dressed how he lives.

“I get sick with fear talking to people,” he says. “It sucks.” A quick search of the Web reveals that Portlandia’s writers are not the only people to have noticed the trend. “Science and ‘geeky’ subjects,” the pop-culture writer Maddox observes, “are perceived as being hip, cool and intellectual.” And so people who are, or wish to be, hip, cool, and intellectual “glom onto these labels and call themselves ‘geeks’ or ‘nerds’ every chance they get.” Which is to say that the nerds of MSNBC and beyond are not actually nerds — with scientific training and all that it entails — but the popular kids indulging in a fad. To a person, they are attractive, accomplished, well paid, and loved, listened to, and cited by a good portion of the general public.

Most of them spend their time on television speaking fluently, debating with passion, and hanging out with celebrities. They attend dinner parties and glitzy social events, and are photographed and put into the glossy magazines. They are flown first class to university commencement speeches and late-night shows and book launches. There they pay lip service to the notion that they are not wildly privileged, and then go back to their hotels to drink $16 cocktails with Bill Maher. In this manner has a word with a formerly useful meaning been turned into a transparent humblebrag: Look at me, I’m smart. Or, more important, perhaps, Look at me and let me tell you who I am not, which is southern, politically conservative, culturally traditional, religious in some sense, patriotic, driven by principle rather than the pivot tables of Microsoft Excel, and in any way attached to the past.

“Nerd” has become a calling a card — a means of conveying membership of one group and denying affiliation with another. The movement’s king, Neil deGrasse Tyson, has formal scientific training, certainly, as do the handful of others who have become celebrated by the crowd. He is a smart man who has done some important work in popularizing science. But this is not why he is useful. Instead, he is useful because he can be deployed as a cudgel and an emblem in political argument — pointed to as the sort of person who wouldn’t vote for Ted Cruz.

“Ignorance,” a popular Tyson meme holds, “is a virus. Once it starts spreading, it can only be cured by reason. For the sake of humanity, we must be that cure.” This rather unspecific message is a call to arms, aimed at those who believe wholeheartedly they are included in the elect “we.” Thus do we see unexceptional liberal-arts students lecturing other people about things they don’t understand themselves and terming the dissenters “flat-earthers.” Thus do we see people who have never in their lives read a single academic paper clinging to the mantle of “science” as might Albert Einstein.

Thus do we see residents of Brooklyn who are unable to tell you at what temperature water boils rolling their eyes at Bjørn Lomborg or Roger Pielke Jr. because he disagrees with Harry Reid on climate change. Really, the only thing in these people’s lives that is peer-reviewed are their opinions. Don’t have a Reddit account? Believe in God? Skeptical about the threat of overpopulation? Who are you, Sarah Palin? First and foremost, then, “nerd” has become a political designation. It is no accident that the president has felt it necessary to inject himself into the game: That’s where the cool kids are. Answering a question about Obama’s cameo on Cosmos, Tyson was laconic. “That was their choice,” he told Grantland. “We didn’t ask them. We didn’t have anything to say about it.

They asked us, ‘Do you mind if we intro your show?’ Can’t say no to the president. So he did.” One wonders how easy it would have proved to say “No” to the president if he had been, say, Scott Walker. Either way, though, that Obama wished to associate himself with the project is instructive. He was launched into the limelight by precisely the sort of people who have DVR’d every episode of Cosmos and who, like the editors of Salon, see it primarily as a means by which they might tweak their ideological enemies; who, as apparently does Sean McElwee, see the world in terms of “Neil deGrasse Tyson vs. the Right (Cosmos, Christians, and the Battle for American Science)”; and who, like the folks at Vice, advise us all: “Don’t Get Neil deGrasse Tyson Started About the Un-Science-y Politicians Who Are Killing America’s Dreams.

” Obama knows this. Look back to his earlier backers and you will see a pattern. These are the people who insisted until they were blue in the face that George W. Bush was a “theocrat” eternally hostile toward “evidence,” and that, despite all information to the contrary, Attorney General Ashcroft had covered up the Spirit of Justice statue at the Department of Justice because he was a prude. These are the people who will explain to other human beings without any irony that they are part of the “reality-based community,” and who want you to know how aw-shucks excited they are to look through the new jobs numbers. At no time is the juxtaposition between the claim and the reality more clear than during the White House Correspondents’ Dinner, which ritzy and opulent celebration of wealth, influence, and power the nation’s smarter progressive class has taken to labeling the “Nerd Prom.” It is clear why people who believe themselves to be providing a voice for the powerless and who routinely lecture the rest of us about the evils of income inequality would wish to reduce in stature a party that would have made Trimalchio blush: It is devastating to their image.

Just as Hillary Clinton has noticed of late that her extraordinary wealth and ostentatious lifestyle conflict with her populist mien, the New Class recognizes the danger that its private behavior poses to its public credibility. There is, naturally, something a little off about selected members of the Fifth Estate yukking it up with those whom they have been charged with scrutinizing — all while rappers and movie stars enjoy castles of champagne and show off their million-dollar dresses. And so the optics must be addressed and the nomenclature of an uncelebrated group cynically appropriated. We’re not the ruling class, the message goes. We’re just geeks. We’re not the powerful; we’re the outcasts. This isn’t a big old shindig; it’s science. Look, Neil deGrasse Tyson is standing in the Roosevelt Room! * * * Ironically enough, what Tyson and his acolytes have ended up doing is blurring the lines between politics, scholarship, and culture — thereby damaging all three. Tyson himself has expressed bemusement that “entertainment reporters” have been so interested in him.

“What does it mean,” he asked, “that Seth MacFarlane, who’s best known for his fart jokes — what does it mean that he’s executive producing” Cosmos? Well, what it means is that, professionally, Tyson has hit the jackpot. Actual science is slow, unsexy, and assiduously neutral — and it carries about it almost nothing that would interest either the hipsters of Ann Arbor or the Kardashian-soaked titillaters over at E! Politics pretending to be science, on the other hand, is current, and it is chic. It’s useful, too. For all of the hype, much of the fadlike fetishization of “Big Data” is merely the latest repackaging of old and tired progressive ideas about who in our society should enjoy the most political power.

Outside of our laboratories, “it’s just science!” is typically a dodge — a bullying tactic designed to hide a crushingly boring orthodox progressivism behind the veil of dispassionate empiricism and to pretend that Hayek’s observation that even the smartest of central planners can never have the information they would need to centrally plan was obviated by the invention of the computer. If politics should be determined by pragmatism, and the pragmatists are all on the left . . . well, you do the math. All over the Internet, Neil deGrasse Tyson’s face is presented next to words that he may or may not have spoken. “Other than being a scientist,” he says in one image, “I’m not any other kind of -ist. These -ists and -isms are philosophies; they’re philosophical portfolios that people attach themselves to and then the philosophy does the thinking for you instead of you doing the thinking yourself.”

Translation: All of my political and moral judgments are original, unlike those of the rubes who subscribe to ideologies, philosophies, and religious frameworks. My worldview is driven only by the data. This is nonsense. Progressives not only believe all sorts of unscientific things — that Medicaid, the VA, and Head Start work; that school choice does not; that abortion carries with it few important medical questions; that GM crops make the world worse; that one can attribute every hurricane, wildfire, and heat wave to “climate change”; that it’s feasible that renewable energy will take over from fossil fuels anytime soon — but also do their level best to block investigation into any area that they consider too delicate.

You’ll note that the typical objections to the likes of Charles Murray and Paul McHugh aren’t scientific at all, but amount to asking lamely why anybody would say something so mean. Still, even were they paragons of inquiry, the instinct would remain insidious. The scientific process is an incredible thing, but it provides us with information rather than with ready-made political or moral judgments. Anyone who privileges one value over another (liberty over security, property rights over redistribution) is by definition indulging an “-ism.” Anyone who believes that the Declaration of Independence contains “self-evident truths” is signing on to an “ideology.” Anyone who goes to bat for any form of legal or material equality is expressing the end results of a philosophy.

Perhaps the greatest trick the Left ever managed to play was to successfully sell the ancient and ubiquitous ideas of collectivism, lightly checked political power, and a permanent technocratic class as being “new,” and the radical notions of individual liberty, limited government, and distributed power as being “reactionary.” A century ago, Woodrow Wilson complained that the checks and balances instituted by the Founders were outdated because they had been contrived before the telephone was invented.

Now, we are to be liberated by the microchip and the Large Hadron Collider, and we are to have our progress assured by ostensibly disinterested analysts. I would recommend that we not fall for it. Our technology may be sparkling and our scientists may be the best in the world, but our politics are as they ever were. Marie Antoinette is no more welcome in America if she dresses up in a Battlestar Galactica uniform and self-deprecatingly joins Tumblr. Sorry, America. Science is important. But these are not the nerds you’re looking for.

fonte
Be Kind; Everyone You Meet is Fighting a Battle.
Ian Mclaren
------------------------------
If you have more than you need, build a longer table rather than a taller fence.
l6l803399
-------------------------------------------
So, first of all, let me assert my firm belief that the only thing we have to fear is...fear itself — nameless, unreasoning, unjustified terror which paralyzes needed efforts to convert retreat into advance.
Franklin D. Roosevelt

Lark

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Re: Investir na Grécia
« Responder #3089 em: 2015-05-02 20:02:31 »
Sim, porque por "intelectualidade" entende-se conhecimento e não lirismo.

atenção à pretensão de fazer passar opiniões pessoais, por verdades absolutas.

por intelectualidade não se entende conhecimento.

O incognitus é que por intelectualidade, entende conhecimento. entende mal.

tens que ter cuidado a escrever.

L
« Última modificação: 2015-05-02 20:07:20 por Lark »
Be Kind; Everyone You Meet is Fighting a Battle.
Ian Mclaren
------------------------------
If you have more than you need, build a longer table rather than a taller fence.
l6l803399
-------------------------------------------
So, first of all, let me assert my firm belief that the only thing we have to fear is...fear itself — nameless, unreasoning, unjustified terror which paralyzes needed efforts to convert retreat into advance.
Franklin D. Roosevelt

Lark

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Re: Investir na Grécia
« Responder #3090 em: 2015-05-02 20:06:42 »
intellectual
adjective in·tel·lec·tu·al \ˌin-tə-ˈlek-chə-wəl, -chəl, -shwəl, -chü(-ə)l\
: of or relating to the ability to think in a logical way
: involving serious study and thought

of a person : smart and enjoying serious study and thought


1
a :  of or relating to the intellect or its use
b :  developed or chiefly guided by the intellect rather than by emotion or experience :  rational
c :  requiring use of the intellect <intellectual games>
2
a :  given to study, reflection, and speculation
b :  engaged in activity requiring the creative use of the intellect <intellectual playwrights>
— in·tel·lec·tu·al·i·ty \-ˌlek-chə-ˈwa-lə-tē\ noun
— in·tel·lec·tu·al·ly \-ˈlek-chə-wə-lē, -chə-lē, -shwə-lē, -chü(-ə)-lē\ adverb
— in·tel·lec·tu·al·ness \-ˈlek-chə-wəl-nəs, -chəl-, -shwəl-, -chü(-ə)l-\ noun

Examples of INTELLECTUAL
the social and intellectual life of the campus
<as the daughter of college professors, she's used to being around intellectual people>

Synonyms
blue, cerebral, eggheaded, geeky, highbrow, highbrowed, intellectualist, intellectualistic, long-haired (or longhair), nerdish, nerdy

Antonyms
anti-intellectual, lowbrow, nonintellectual, philistine

merriam-webster
Be Kind; Everyone You Meet is Fighting a Battle.
Ian Mclaren
------------------------------
If you have more than you need, build a longer table rather than a taller fence.
l6l803399
-------------------------------------------
So, first of all, let me assert my firm belief that the only thing we have to fear is...fear itself — nameless, unreasoning, unjustified terror which paralyzes needed efforts to convert retreat into advance.
Franklin D. Roosevelt

vbm

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Re: Investir na Grécia
« Responder #3091 em: 2015-05-02 20:09:29 »
:)

Lark

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Re: Investir na Grécia
« Responder #3092 em: 2015-05-02 20:12:49 »
: of or relating to the ability to think in a logical way
: involving serious study and thought

a relação entre intelectualidade e conhecimento não é uma igualdade.
a intelectualidade, a racionalidade, tem a ver com a forma de obtenção do conhecimento. com o método de obtenção do conhecimento.

o conhecimento racional e científico é função da intelectualidade, não é a intelectualidade.

estás a ver o problema da direita?
não é uma questão de matemática, embora por vezes também seja.

é um problema de lógica. e de capacidade de explanação lógica.

L


« Última modificação: 2015-05-02 20:15:14 por Lark »
Be Kind; Everyone You Meet is Fighting a Battle.
Ian Mclaren
------------------------------
If you have more than you need, build a longer table rather than a taller fence.
l6l803399
-------------------------------------------
So, first of all, let me assert my firm belief that the only thing we have to fear is...fear itself — nameless, unreasoning, unjustified terror which paralyzes needed efforts to convert retreat into advance.
Franklin D. Roosevelt

Lark

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Re: Investir na Grécia
« Responder #3093 em: 2015-05-02 20:17:24 »
aliás os exemplos são múltiplos.

creacionismo
climate change denial

e podia estar aqui horas...

L
Be Kind; Everyone You Meet is Fighting a Battle.
Ian Mclaren
------------------------------
If you have more than you need, build a longer table rather than a taller fence.
l6l803399
-------------------------------------------
So, first of all, let me assert my firm belief that the only thing we have to fear is...fear itself — nameless, unreasoning, unjustified terror which paralyzes needed efforts to convert retreat into advance.
Franklin D. Roosevelt

Lark

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Re: Investir na Grécia
« Responder #3094 em: 2015-05-02 20:37:13 »
Greek default? Wall Street says don't risk it
Letting Athens leave the eurozone isn’t worth the risk to a fragile global economy, experts say.

Former U.S. Treasury Secretary Larry Summers said this is like pulling the thread of a sweater: It could tear off or unravel.

NEW YORK — Top executives on Wall Street and senior policymakers in Washington are warning their European counterparts not to let Greece default and leave the eurozone, fearing the market reaction at a time of sluggish growth in the U.S. and instability in the global economy.

Some say they are not as freaked out as they were in 2012 about the prospect of always-in-crisis Greece getting kicked out of the eurozone, which could happen if a deal isn’t reached quickly. Some would even like to let the Greeks go and move on with life.

But then people mention Lehman Brothers. And the Russian default. And even an assassination in Sarajevo in 1914. And theoretical discussion of how better prepared the world is for a Greek exit quickly turns into fevered rumination on how it still might spark global financial Armageddon.

The bottom line: Wall Street and Washington want to keep Greece in the eurozone because no one really knows what might happen otherwise. And with the U.S. economy wobbling again, China slowing and the Middle East a short step from full-blown crisis, adding a Greek wild card to the deck is too scary a thought.

“We are certainly better off than we were when this was happening three or four years ago,” said Larry Summers, the former U.S. Treasury secretary. “But the world vastly underestimated the impact of the Russian default, the subprime crisis and the risk of letting Lehman go. This is like pulling the thread of a sweater. It could tear off with no consequence. Or it could unravel entirely and set off something very big.”

The fear that a Greek default and exit from the eurozone could spark a market panic that might destroy the currency union itself and ripple around the world is also held at the highest levels of the Obama administration. Administration officials mostly share the view of European Commission President Jean-Claude Juncker, who told POLITICO this week that a Greek exit could “lead us to consequences that people don’t know the amplitude about.”

Administration officials are publicly and privately pressing Greece and its European creditors to come up with some kind of deal by the end of the week, though that deadline now appears to be slipping. Such a deal would release $7.6 billion to allow Greece to continue to pay its bills, at least until the next reckoning over the nation’s $273 billion bailout hits this summer.

Treasury Secretary Jack Lew last week warned that if Greece were to leave the eurozone, it would cause severe economic hardship for the nation’s 11 million citizens and could destabilize markets.

“I have said consistently that no one should think that all of the risk of a change like that is predictable in advance,” Lew told Bloomberg Television. “And even if the contagion risk is much less now than it was in 2012 and earlier, it would not be a good thing in a world economy just recovering from a deep recession to have that kind of uncertainty introduced.”

The U.S. has no direct role in talks between Greek officials, led by finance minister Yanis Varoufakis, and creditors from the European Stability Mechanism, the European Central Bank and the International Monetary Fund. But Treasury officials continue to press all sides to come to terms before a finance ministers meeting in Riga, Latvia, on Friday.

Reports Wednesday suggested no deal is likely to emerge before the Friday meeting and that Greece could stumble along until June without defaulting. But if no agreement is reached by then, European lenders could refuse to release any more bailout money to Greece, which could, in turn, quickly run out of cash to pay its bills. Greece this week ordered local governments to start keeping cash with the nation’s central bank, a move reminiscent of the Argentinian collapse in 2002.

If Greece can’t unlock new bailout funds it could lead the nation to default on its loans and set the stage for a Greek exit — or “Grexit” — the widely used portmanteau word for the country leaving the currency union.

A senior Treasury official told POLITICO that he expected a deal ultimately would be reached. He said that the alternative could conceivably set the stage for other nations to leave the common currency. This could then lead to the collapse of the currency itself, deep recession across Europe and days — if not weeks — of volatile market reaction that could damage investor and business confidence enough to derail a U.S. economy that is growing only about 2 percent at best right now.

None of these frightening outcomes are at all certain, the Treasury official said. And it remains quite possible that Greece could leave the euro with relatively little impact. But the uncertainty remains so high that a deal must be reached, said the official, who declined to be quoted directly or identified by name in order to speak freely about highly sensitive talks.

Another senior Washington policymaker said the risk associated with a Greek exit alone was not especially high. But this person added that market events rarely happen in a vacuum and that a Greek exit coupled with a foreign policy problem or a mistake by the U.S. Federal Reserve in interest rate policy could tilt markets and the global economy back toward recession or worse.

“No one thing creates pure panic, but you could easily have two or three viable candidates that could move in parallel with each other — geopolitical or monetary — that could create a very powerful effect,” said the policymaker, who also requested anonymity.

Investors got a taste of just how risky a Greek default and possible euro exit could be last Friday when reports that a deal might not be reached helped spark a global sell-off that at one point saw the Dow Jones Industrial Average down over 300 points. Interest rates on Greek debt also rose to two-year highs.

Rates on other European debt, including the debts of Portugal and Italy, also initially rose before ECB buying kicked in, suggesting that if Greece falls, investors could then start to punish other nations viewed as vulnerable to default. Spiking rates could turn once manageable debt loads into crushing burdens.

Fears over this kind of vicious cycle leave many big Wall Street money managers and executives skeptical of the argument that the world is now prepared for a Greek exit and that such an outcome might actually be preferable to going through these near misses over and over.

These money managers say that if Greece does wind up leaving the eurozone, it will probably not be a “Grexit” at all. That phrase, they say, connotes an orderly process in which the country’s euros are carefully replaced with drachma and nobody panics and pulls all their money out of the bank.

Instead, many Wall Street executives say it’s more likely that a Greek departure would be an accident — now known on Wall Street as a “Graccident” — in which the county is forced out of the eurozone by bank runs and a collapse in investor confidence.

“If a ‘Graccident’ were to occur, it would be very messy,” said Mohamed A. El-Erian, chief economic adviser at global money management firm Allianz. “And the global economy is still too fragile to take a major shock. The good news is that Europe has done a lot to increase its defenses against contagion. But it could still be very dangerous to stumble into an accident.”

In a recent note to clients, UBS analyst Paul Donovan warned of investor complacency over the possibility of a Greek exit. “Investors seem to have embraced the belief that if Greece were to walk away from the euro, it would walk alone with minimum contagion to other countries. This belief is dangerous,” he wrote. “The contagion risk after a possible Greek exit arises if bank depositors elsewhere in the euro area believe that a physical euro note held ‘under the mattress’ at home today is worth more than a euro in a bank — because a euro in a bank might be forcibly converted into a national currency tomorrow.”

Not all Wall Street analysts or executives share this view.

In fact, some argue that the time has come to recognize that Greece, particularly under its leftist Syriza government led by Prime Minister Alexis Tsipras, is never going to enact serious fiscal reforms no matter what it says publicly and will eventually default on its debt.

The case for not caring much about a “Grexit” holds that most of the nation’s debt is now held by other countries rather than banks, making financial system failures less likely. Meanwhile, European economic growth is picking up and should be able to withstand a period of turbulence, this line of thinking holds. And Greece has a tiny economy whose collapse would cause localized pain but register barely a blip around the globe.

Some top executives on Wall Street argue that it would be much worse for creditors to cave in to demands for more lenient terms from Greek’s anti-austerity political leaders. Because that would mean other debtor nations would also soon clamor for relief. Better to rip the bandage off and put an end to the charade that Greece will ever pay back all its loans.

“In 2012, if Greece blew up, it would have posed serious systemic risk,” said one Wall Street chief executive who declined to be identified by name. “But now, the private sector has nowhere near what anyone would dream of calling systemic exposure. In fact, any capitulation by creditors of any significant magnitude would be the real source of systemic risk.”

This executive added that a Greek exit could actually boost global markets because “you kick Greece out and the world realizes this is not a systemic problem and the euro rallies because they just got rid of the weakest link.”

But the more widely held view — in Washington and on Wall Street — is that while Europe has, indeed, built more firewalls and reduced private-sector exposure to Greek debt, the unknown reaction to a “Grexit” is potentially much worse than the annoyingly familiar and increasingly tiresome rounds of angst-ridden talks between Greece and its creditors.

“If Greece leaves, it will never be possible to say again that exit is impossible, and if exit is always possible then you put increasing pressure on the weaker countries,” said Summers. “Of course, it’s also not tenable for the euro area to firmly establish that exit is impossible, or no country will feel any disciplinary pressure. So the matter is quite delicate, and we all have to hope and push for a mutually satisfactory conclusion.”

politico
Be Kind; Everyone You Meet is Fighting a Battle.
Ian Mclaren
------------------------------
If you have more than you need, build a longer table rather than a taller fence.
l6l803399
-------------------------------------------
So, first of all, let me assert my firm belief that the only thing we have to fear is...fear itself — nameless, unreasoning, unjustified terror which paralyzes needed efforts to convert retreat into advance.
Franklin D. Roosevelt

Incognitus

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Re: Investir na Grécia
« Responder #3095 em: 2015-05-02 20:37:21 »
: of or relating to the ability to think in a logical way
: involving serious study and thought

a relação entre intelectualidade e conhecimento não é uma igualdade.
a intelectualidade, a racionalidade, tem a ver com a forma de obtenção do conhecimento. com o método de obtenção do conhecimento.

o conhecimento racional e científico é função da intelectualidade, não é a intelectualidade.

estás a ver o problema da direita?
não é uma questão de matemática, embora por vezes também seja.

é um problema de lógica. e de capacidade de explanação lógica.

L

Sim, sim.

É mesmo pessoal que nem matemática sabe, nem sabe como funciona o mundo, que vai depois estar cheio de lógica e racionalidade.

Lark, a razão pela qual a cultura é tão popular e valorizada pela esquerda tem a ver profundamente com o facto de que não exige muito trabalho "gostar-se" da "cultura correcta". Não exige esforço. Logo uma ideologia baseada na falta de esforço e na inveja, naturalmente vira-se para essa facilidade.

Lark, isto até está documentado. Uma revista "científica" social progressista publicou um paper totalmente absurdo gerado precisamente para testar o seu processo de peer review. É uma coisa espalhada.
"Nem tudo o que pode ser contado conta, e nem tudo o que conta pode ser contado.", Albert Einstein

Incognitus, www.thinkfn.com

Lark

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Re: Investir na Grécia
« Responder #3096 em: 2015-05-02 20:39:24 »
No new bailout needed if Greek debt restructured, says finance minister

 
Greek Finance Minister Yanis Varoufakis insisted Saturday that Greece would not require a new bailout from its international creditors if they would simply restructure its debt.

Athens last week resumed talks with its creditors in a bid to unblock 7.2 billion euros ($8 billion) from its EU-IMF bailout before state coffers run dry.

But analysts believe that even if it manages to secure the last tranche of aid, Athens may have to obtain a new rescue package to stay afloat.

Varoufakis said however that Greece could do without a new bailout.

“One of the conditions for this to happen though, is an important restructuring of the debt,” he told the Efimerida ton Sindakton daily in an interview published Saturday.

The radical-left SYRIZA government came into power in January on a campaign promise that it would seek to get part of its debt written off.

However, its creditors – European Union, European Central Bank and the International Monetary Fund – have reiterated that that is impossible.

Varoufakis, whose negotiating style has grated his EU counterparts, also took a swipe at the eurozone in the interview, warning that if it “doesn't change it will die.”

He added that “no country, not only Greece, should have joined such a shaky common monetary system.”

Nevertheless, Varoufakis said it was “one thing to say we shouldn't have joined the euro and it is another to say that we have to leave” because backtracking now would lead to “an unforeseen negative situation.”

Asked about reported insults from fellow Eurogroup finance ministers during a tense meeting in Riga on April 24, Varoufakis was also dismissive.

Media reports said he had been branded a “gambler,” an “amateur” and an “adventurist” by his peers.

“Those would have surely been heavy offenses if they had been expressed. But they were not,” said Varoufakis.

Prime Minister Alexis Tsipras had reshuffled the team handling negotiations with its creditors after relations between Varoufakis and the EU hit a new low during a stormy Eurogroup meeting in Riga last week.

Athens is struggling to pay salaries and pensions without the promised loans. Almost a billion euros in debt and interest is also due for repayment to the IMF by May 12.

Unless an agreement is reached to unlock the remaining EU-IMF bailout money, the debt-ridden country faces default and a possible exit from the euro.

Technical experts from the Eurogroup and the Greek delegation are due to be in contact all weekend, trying to resolve differences concerning sweeping reforms required by Brussels and the IMF to secure the package.

khatimerini
Be Kind; Everyone You Meet is Fighting a Battle.
Ian Mclaren
------------------------------
If you have more than you need, build a longer table rather than a taller fence.
l6l803399
-------------------------------------------
So, first of all, let me assert my firm belief that the only thing we have to fear is...fear itself — nameless, unreasoning, unjustified terror which paralyzes needed efforts to convert retreat into advance.
Franklin D. Roosevelt

Incognitus

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Re: Investir na Grécia
« Responder #3097 em: 2015-05-02 20:40:34 »
aliás os exemplos são múltiplos.

creacionismo
climate change denial

e podia estar aqui horas...

L

Eu não colocaria os dois ao mesmo nível. O creacionismo é absurdo.

Agora o "climate change":
* Nem sempre foi "climate change", uma boa parte do tempo é "global warming";
* Não é ainda um facto cientificamente estabelecido, o mundo tem ciclos de aquecimento e arrefecimento, e já estava a aquecer bastante antes do momento actual e do impacto humano (basta pensar nas idades do gelo todas para trás);
* Existem cientistas dos dois lados da barricada (mesmo que os do lado do global warming sejam mais numerosos);
* O lado do global warming já teve vários escândalos de manipulação de dados;
* Não é garantido que a fronteira aí esteja dividida entre esquerda e direita, mesmo que exista um lado vocal sobre isso na direita.

Em todo o caso para mim o global warming é um bocado irrelevante, não tenho posição nisso, acho que ainda não está suficientemente provado para um lado ou para o outro.
« Última modificação: 2015-05-02 20:41:08 por Incognitus »
"Nem tudo o que pode ser contado conta, e nem tudo o que conta pode ser contado.", Albert Einstein

Incognitus, www.thinkfn.com

Incognitus

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Re: Investir na Grécia
« Responder #3098 em: 2015-05-02 20:43:30 »
Por fim, parece-me bastante mais absurdo uma pessoa de esquerda ser tão a favor de determinado sistema e não o implementar sem o conseguir impor a outros.

A esquerda para quem não pratica o que advoga é integralmente hipócrita.
"Nem tudo o que pode ser contado conta, e nem tudo o que conta pode ser contado.", Albert Einstein

Incognitus, www.thinkfn.com

Lark

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Re: Investir na Grécia
« Responder #3099 em: 2015-05-02 21:51:16 »
Merkel Says Germany Can’t Cut Off Nazi Past, Cites Greece

Germany has a duty to deal sensitively with the Nazi era, Chancellor Angela Merkel said, citing a debate in Greece about German responsibility for the country’s occupation during World War II.

“One can’t draw the line on history,” Merkel said in her weekly podcast Saturday before the 70th anniversary of the war’s end next week. “We see this in the discussion in Greece and also in other European countries. We Germans do have a special responsibility to deal in an aware, sensitive and knowledgeable way with what we perpetrated under Nazism.”

While voicing understanding for the “long-lasting wounds” caused by the Nazis across Europe, the chancellor declined to address Greek demands for war reparations and said the task facing European governments now is to halt the rise in public debt.

Merkel’s comments reflect her leading role in holding together the 19-nation euro and confronting Russia in the conflict over Ukraine. While there are “deep differences of opinion” with Russia, she said “it’s important” for her to visit Moscow on May 10 to join President Vladimir Putin in honoring soldiers who died in World War II.

Merkel’s government is ruling out further war reparations for Greece, saying the matter was closed by Europe’s acceptance of the treaty that reunified East and West Germany in 1990 at the end of the Cold War.

Germany should nonetheless explore compensation for war crimes committed by German soldiers during World War II, German President Joachim Gauck, whose post is mostly ceremonial, was quoted as saying by Sueddeutsche Zeitung.

“It’s the right thing for a historically aware country like ours to explore which possibilities of compensation there might be,” the newspaper quoted him as saying in an interview in its Saturday edition.

bloomberg
Be Kind; Everyone You Meet is Fighting a Battle.
Ian Mclaren
------------------------------
If you have more than you need, build a longer table rather than a taller fence.
l6l803399
-------------------------------------------
So, first of all, let me assert my firm belief that the only thing we have to fear is...fear itself — nameless, unreasoning, unjustified terror which paralyzes needed efforts to convert retreat into advance.
Franklin D. Roosevelt