Olá, Visitante. Por favor entre ou registe-se se ainda não for membro.

Entrar com nome de utilizador, password e duração da sessão
 

Autor Tópico: China - Tópico principal  (Lida 212327 vezes)

jeab

  • Ordem dos Especialistas
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Mensagens: 9270
    • Ver Perfil
Re:China - Tópico principal
« Responder #60 em: 2012-11-12 11:35:22 »
Sem dúvida!
Têm uma força de trabalho e vontade que é de bradar aos céus.

Mas aos poucos, dezenas de anos, eles vão ficar com o bichinho mau dos ocidentais. Tem sido assim.
uma geração que trabalha, trabalha, e começa a (des)educar os filhos... de outra forma e isto tem implicações mais tarde!

Depois tem de vir assim umas crises... dantes eram as guerras, que fazem mexer com o pessoal. A ver atinam novamente...!

edit: Tote... negócios para Portugal ou para o Brasil (parece-me que estarias por lá)?

É só aparecer um Sócrates a desbaratar o dinheiro num Social non fare niente ... :D
O Socialismo acaba quando se acaba o dinheiro - Winston Churchill

Toda a vida política portuguesa pós 25 de Abril/74 está monopolizada pelos partidos políticos, liderados por carreiristas ambiciosos, medíocres e de integridade duvidosa.
Daí provém a mediocridade nacional!
O verdadeiro homem inteligente é aquele que parece ser um idiota na frente de um idiota que parece ser inteligente!

tote

  • Ordem dos Especialistas
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Mensagens: 1281
    • Ver Perfil
Re:China - Tópico principal
« Responder #61 em: 2012-11-14 03:39:20 »
Sem dúvida!
Têm uma força de trabalho e vontade que é de bradar aos céus.

Mas aos poucos, dezenas de anos, eles vão ficar com o bichinho mau dos ocidentais. Tem sido assim.
uma geração que trabalha, trabalha, e começa a (des)educar os filhos... de outra forma e isto tem implicações mais tarde!

Depois tem de vir assim umas crises... dantes eram as guerras, que fazem mexer com o pessoal. A ver atinam novamente...!

edit: Tote... negócios para Portugal ou para o Brasil (parece-me que estarias por lá)?

Lusófonos e China principalmente

hermes

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Mensagens: 2836
    • Ver Perfil
Re:Negócios da China
« Responder #62 em: 2012-11-24 14:43:46 »
Russell Napier's "Most Important Chart In The World"

by Tyler Durden
on 11/22/2012 11:28 -0500

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2012-11-22/russell-napiers-most-important-chart-world

Hopes for an early recovery in the global economy may be overoptimistic, according to CLSA's Russel Napier, as he notes the expansion of China's reserves, which has been an engine of global economic growth, is about to come to a shuddering halt. As eFinancial News notes, Chinese reserves have decelerated dramatically over the last five years and are now close to zero. Napier said of the graph: "It is the most important chart in the world. The growth in Chinese reserves has determined all the key developments in financial markets in the last two decades. It printed lots of currency and artificially depressed the US yield curve. It has been the cornerstone of global growth, and now it's over."


Via eFinancial News:

Citar
...

The last time the Chinese reserve growth rate was below 10% was at the end of the 1990s, just before the bursting of the technology stock market bubble and a recession. The recovery in the growth rate from 2001 onwards was followed by the economic boom of the last decade. The growth rate turned down decisively in 2007, just before the onset of the financial crisis.

China's reserves have come from a trading surplus, and the Chinese authorities have used the money to buy US Treasury bonds. The finance that China supplied to the US helped fuel economic growth in that country and the rest of the world.


Once again, we are reminded that it is the flow not the stock that counts for 'growth' is credit expansion and credit is growth...
"Everyone knows where we have been. Let's see where we are going." – Another

Kin2010

  • Ordem dos Especialistas
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Mensagens: 3989
    • Ver Perfil
Re:Negócios da China
« Responder #63 em: 2012-11-25 03:18:30 »
Não me parece correcta essa análise, pois a redução desse ritmo de acumulação de reservas da China é precisamente um passo na correcção do problema de desequilíbrio estrutural do mundo em que a China e Alemanha exportam demais para aquilo que consomem, acontecendo o reverso nos EUA e outros países. Por isso, esse desenvolvimento até pode ser positivo.

hermes

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Mensagens: 2836
    • Ver Perfil
Re:Negócios da China
« Responder #64 em: 2012-11-25 10:54:50 »
A longo prazo estamos todos mortos, nós e o sistema monetário presente.

Este é um sério indicador a dizer que o QE infinito não vai chegar e que o Bernanke vai ter de passar para o QE aleph 1:D

É que entre salvar o dólar e manter o nível de vida do tio Sam, a escolha já está feita!
"Everyone knows where we have been. Let's see where we are going." – Another

hermes

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Mensagens: 2836
    • Ver Perfil
Re:Negócios da China
« Responder #65 em: 2012-11-29 11:04:32 »
Post-US world born in Phnom Penh

By Spengler
Nov 27, 2012

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Global_Economy/NK27Dj02.html

It is symptomatic of the national condition of the United States that the worst humiliation ever suffered by it as a nation, and by a US president personally, passed almost without comment last week. I refer to the November 20 announcement at a summit meeting in Phnom Penh that 15 Asian nations, comprising half the world's population, would form a Regional Comprehensive Economic Partnership excluding the United States.

President Barack Obama attended the summit to sell a US-based Trans-Pacific Partnership excluding China. He didn't. The American led-partnership became a party to which no-one came.

Instead, the Association of Southeast Asian Nations, plus China, India, Japan, South Korea, Australia and New Zealand, will form a club and leave out the United States. As 3 billion Asians become prosperous, interest fades in the prospective contribution of 300 million Americans - especially when those Americans decline to take risks on new technologies. America's great economic strength, namely its capacity to innovate, exists mainly in memory four years after the 2008 economic crisis.

A minor issue in the election campaign, the Trans-Pacific Partnership initiative was the object of enormous hype on the policy circuit. Salon.com enthused on October 23,

Citar
This agreement is a core part of the "Asia pivot" that has occupied the activities of think tanks and policymakers in Washington but remained hidden by the tinsel and confetti of the election. But more than any other policy, the trends the TPP represents could restructure American foreign relations, and potentially the economy itself.


As it happened, this grand, game-changing vision mattered only to the sad, strange people who concoct policy in the bowels of the Obama administration. America's relative importance is fading.

To put these matters in context: the exports of Asian countries have risen more than 20% from their peak before the 2008 economic crisis, while Europe's exports have fallen by more than 20%. American exports have risen marginally (by about 4%) from their pre-2008 peak.

Exhibit 1: Asian, European and US exports

China's exports to Asia, meanwhile, have jumped 50% since their pre-crisis peak, while exports to the United States have risen by about 15%. At US$90 billion, Chinese exports to Asia are three times the country's exports to the United States.

After months and dire (and entirely wrong) predictions that China's economy faces a hard landing, it is evident that China will have no hard landing, nor indeed any landing at all. Domestic consumption as well as exports to Asia are both running nearly 20% ahead of last year's levels, compensating for weakness in certain export markets and the construction sector. Exports to the moribund American economy are stagnant.

Exhibit 2: China's exports to Asia vs USA
Source: Bloomberg

In 2002, China imported five times as much from Asia as it did from the United States. Now it imports 10 times as much from Asia as from the US.

Exhibit 3: Chinese imports from the US and Asia
Source: Bloomberg

Following the trade patterns, Asian currencies began trading more closely with China's renminbi than with the American dollar. Arvind Subramanian and Martin Kessler wrote in an October 2012 study for the Peterson Institute:

Citar
A country's rise to economic dominance tends to be accompanied by its currency becoming a reference point, with other currencies tracking it implicitly or explicitly. For a sample comprising emerging market economies, we show that in the last two years, the renminbi (RMB/yuan) has increasingly become a reference currency which we define as one which exhibits a high degree of co-movement (CMC) with other currencies.

In East Asia, there is already a RMB bloc, because the RMB has become the dominant reference currency, eclipsing the dollar, which is a historic development. In this region, 7 currencies out of 10 co-move more closely with the RMB than with the dollar, with the average value of the CMC relative to the RMB being 40% greater than that for the dollar. We find that co-movements with a reference currency, especially for the RMB, are associated with trade integration.

We draw some lessons for the prospects for the RMB bloc to move beyond Asia based on a comparison of the RMB's situation today and that of the Japanese yen in the early 1990s. If trade were the sole driver, a more global RMB bloc could emerge by the mid-2030s but complementary reforms of the financial and external sector could considerably expedite the process.


All of this is well known and exhaustively discussed. The question is what, if anything, the United States will do about it.

Where does the United States have a competitive advantage? Apart from commercial aircraft, power-generating equipment, and agriculture, it has few areas of real industrial pre-eminence. Cheap natural gas helps low-value-added industries such as fertilizer, but the US is lagging in the industrial space.

Four years ago, when Francesco Sisci and I proposed a Sino-American monetary agreement as an anchor for trade integration, the US still dominated the nuclear power plant industry. With the sale of the Westinghouse nuclear power business to Toshiba, and Toshiba's joint ventures with China to build power plants locally, that advantage has evaporated.

The problem is that Americans have stopped investing in the sort of high-tech, high-value-added industries that produce the manufactures that Asia requires. Manufacturers' capital goods orders are 38% below the 1999 peak after taking inflation into account. And venture capital allocations for high-tech manufacturing have dried up.

Exhibit 4: Venture capital allocations for export-related industries collapse (March 2003=100)
Source: National Venture Capital Association

Exhibit 5: US capital goods orders nearly 40% below 1999 peak in real terms
Source: Bureau of Economic Analysis

Without innovation and investment, all the trade agreements that the Washington policy circuit can devise won't help. Neither, it should be added, will an adjustment in exchange rates.

It is hard to fathom just what President Obama had in mind when he arrived in Asia bearing a Trans-Pacific Partnership designed to keep China out. What does the United States have to offer Asians?
  • It is borrowing $600 billion a year from the rest of the world to finance a $1.2 trillion government debt, most prominently from Japan (China has been a net seller of Treasury securities during the past year).
  • It is a taker of capital rather than a provider of capital.
  • It is a major import market but rapidly diminishing in relative importance as intra-Asian trade expands far more rapidly than trade with the United States.
  • And America's strength as an innovator and incubator of entrepreneurs has diminished drastically since the 2008 crisis, no thanks to the Obama administration, which imposed a steep task on start-up businesses in the form of its healthcare program.

Washington might want to pivot towards Asia. At Phnom Penh, though, Asian leaders in effect invited Obama to pivot the full 360 degrees and go home.

Spengler is channeled by David P Goldman. His book How Civilizations Die (and why Islam is Dying, Too) was published by Regnery Press in September 2011. A volume of his essays on culture, religion and economics, It's Not the End of the World - It's Just the End of You, also appeared last fall, from Van Praag Press.
"Everyone knows where we have been. Let's see where we are going." – Another

hermes

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Mensagens: 2836
    • Ver Perfil
Re:Negócios da China
« Responder #66 em: 2012-12-09 15:23:08 »
Canada opens a pipeline to China
Commentary: CNOOC-Nexen deal trumps security concerns


By MarketWatch
Dec. 7, 2012, 6:25 p.m. EST

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/canada-opens-a-pipeline-to-china-2012-12-07?link=MW_home_latest_news

Cnooc wins Canadian government approval to buy Nexen.

SAN FRANCISCO (MarketWatch) — Canada’s government has ruled: Selling two key energy companies to China is good for the nation.

Facing a Monday deadline, the government announced late Friday that the $15 billion bid the China National Offshore Oil Corp., or CNOOC Ltd. CEO +0.73% , made in July for Calgary-based Nexen Inc. CA:NXY -6.35% NXY -6.56% provides a “net benefit” for Canada.

It also approved a $5.2 billion takeover of Progress Energy Resources Corp. CA:PRQ -4.35% by Petronas, Malaysia’s national oil company. See: Canada OK's CNOOC-Nexen, Petronas-Progress bids.

How the government reached its decision is a bit of a mystery. Just a month ago it looked like national security concerns would scuttle the Petronas-Progress deal, which in turn cast a very dark cloud over the CNOOC-Nexen takeover.

Now we know better.

Those betting correctly that the CNOOC-Nexen deal would go through — and the 99% of Nexen shareholders who voted for it — can now say with real conviction what they thought all along: Canada needs an new outlet for its surplus oil and gas.

Earlier this year the Obama administration rejected that part of the Keystone Pipeline project that would have carried oil from Canada to refineries along the Gulf of Mexico, essentially keeping output from Canada’s new oil shale fields bottled up north of the border.

The White House didn’t exactly kill the Keystone project, it just asked that it be revised to address environmental concerns.

There’s another way of looking at this cold shoulder from Uncle Sam. The U.S. has made huge production gains from its own oil shale boom, and that’s taken any urgency out of securing new imports from longtime supplier Canada.

Meanwhile, Canada has been looking for ways to beef up trade with Asia, especially China. With China’s biggest overseas oil company in hot pursuit of much-needed energy reserves anywhere they can get them, Ottawa clearly saw an opening. Bend the pipeline from the south to the west to meet growing demand in the biggest fuel market in the Far East.

This is about more than feeling rejected by the U.S., however, since much of Nexen’s reserves are in the North Sea, Africa and the Gulf of Mexico.

Because Nexen operates in the U.K., European Union regulators also needed to give their blessing to the deal, which they did earlier Friday. Once that key piece of the approval process was in place, Canada wasted no time pushing out what now can only be called a foregone conclusion: Nexen goes to Cnooc, Progress goes to Petronas, and Canada opens a gateway to Asia.

Friday’s decisions won’t end the raging debate in Canada over trade benefits versus national security. Prime Minister Stephen Harper, in making the announcement, even vowed to tighten the review process and, hopefully, make it more transparent.

But, as the old saying goes, the camel has got its nose in the tent now.

— Jim Jelter
"Everyone knows where we have been. Let's see where we are going." – Another

hermes

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Mensagens: 2836
    • Ver Perfil
Re:Negócios da China
« Responder #67 em: 2013-01-19 17:31:51 »
O Tesouro do Dragão

Carta interessante do Nick Laird:


Fonte: http://kingworldnews.com/kingworldnews/KWN_DailyWeb/Entries/2013/1/13_KWN_Sunday_Gold_Chart_Special.html

Esta parece indicar que a China não era o otário na mesa de pocker quando começou a comprar a dívida pública americana à Lagardère, aquando da sua entrada na WTO [World Trade Organisation] em 2001 [pouco depois do 11 de Setembro], visto que no mesmo ano começou a comprar o seu seguro, através da importação de ouro para contrabalançar a futura perda do poder de compra do dólar.

Repare-se que nos 3 anos anteriores as reservas da China não tinham ido a lado nenhum


Fonte: http://www.cairn.info/revue-economie-internationale-2007-3-page-9.htm

além de nem sequer ter havido um aumento repentino da balança comercial com os EUA por essa altura, nem nos anos anteriores


Fonte: http://www.tutor2u.net/blog/index.php/economics/comments/the-us-china-trade-deficit

Nestes 10 anos que sustentaram os EUA, acumularam 4700 toneladas de ouro [cf. 1º gráfico], i.e. cerca de metade das reservas de ouro dos EUA. Tendo em conta que o GDP da China tb é metade do dos EUA, dá que pensar.
"Everyone knows where we have been. Let's see where we are going." – Another

JoaoAP

  • Ordem dos Especialistas
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Mensagens: 4778
    • Ver Perfil
Re:China - Tópico principal
« Responder #68 em: 2013-01-22 22:22:51 »
Hoje ouvi boas notícias para os têxteis europeus (especialmente os do leste)... pois os salários na China têm subido uma média de 25%...ao ano...
será?

Li algures:
Citar
Chinese corporate debt is now one of the highest on a per GDP basis in the world. Finally, China’s massive real estate market continues to keep investors on edge.
Poderá haver por aqui alguma consequência negativas mas boas para o Ocidente?

Incognitus

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Mensagens: 30961
    • Ver Perfil
Re:China - Tópico principal
« Responder #69 em: 2013-01-22 23:04:17 »
Hoje ouvi boas notícias para os têxteis europeus (especialmente os do leste)... pois os salários na China têm subido uma média de 25%...ao ano...
será?

Li algures:
Citar
Chinese corporate debt is now one of the highest on a per GDP basis in the world. Finally, China’s massive real estate market continues to keep investors on edge.
Poderá haver por aqui alguma consequência negativas mas boas para o Ocidente?

A prazo o desenvolvimento da China retira-lhe a capacidade de competir pelo preço, sim. É claro que neste momento a China já não compete somente pelo preço, mas também por capacidades únicas que já possuem.
"Nem tudo o que pode ser contado conta, e nem tudo o que conta pode ser contado.", Albert Einstein

Incognitus, www.thinkfn.com

Visitante

  • Ordem dos Especialistas
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Mensagens: 3766
    • Ver Perfil
Re:Negócios da China
« Responder #70 em: 2013-03-06 20:00:17 »
The Coal Monster: Pollution Forces Chinese Leaders to Act


The new leadership wants to transform China from a partially agrarian and industrial country into a high-tech and service nation. At the same time, it intends to boost affluence and promote urbanization in order to come to grips with the country's wealth disparity and population growth. If they achieve all of these goals, Xi and Li will leave behind a different China.

jjmm

  • Ordem dos Especialistas
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Mensagens: 157
    • Ver Perfil
Re:China - Tópico principal
« Responder #71 em: 2013-03-12 17:57:18 »

hermes

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Mensagens: 2836
    • Ver Perfil
Re:Negócios da China
« Responder #72 em: 2013-04-13 10:33:56 »
TIC…TIC…TIC: The Ominous Warning in Foreigners’ U.S. Bond Positions

by ffwiley
on April 11, 2013

http://www.cyniconomics.com/2013/04/11/tictictic-the-ominous-warning-in-foreigners-u-s-bond-positions/

When data released last year showed China losing its appetite for U.S. bonds, it didn’t cause much concern. Sure, some bloggers took notice, such as the always alert Tyler Durden(s) in this post. But most pundits saw other countries picking up the slack and decided to “move along, nothing to see here.”

As of later this month, we’ll receive the final picture on China’s U.S. bond sales over late 2011 and early 2012, and the reaction isn’t likely to be much different than it was last year. But I’ll argue that there’s actually quite a lot to see. Namely, there’s a brand new reason to be concerned about America’s access to foreign capital.

Comparing annual and monthly TIC data

I’ll first share data from the Treasury International Capital (TIC) System’s annual survey of foreigners’ U.S. bond holdings. Those familiar with the TIC data know that these annual results are notoriously stale. Preliminary data was released on February 28th, with the final report due April 30th for a survey describing foreign bond holdings as of June 2012.

In other words, there’s a 10 month lag from survey date to report date.

But the first thing we learned from the preliminary release is that the annual survey didn’t add much information to the approximations published by the Treasury Department on a monthly basis. Thanks to new methods, which were introduced to fix large errors that used to occur in the monthly approximations, revisions were minor this time around.

The February 28th release merely confirms that China dumped U.S. bonds between the annual survey dates of June 2011 and June 2012, while other countries offset China’s sales by increasing their holdings.

Here’s the comparison of total foreign holdings of U.S. government bonds to China’s holdings:



Now for the bad news

As I mentioned above, most pundits have sounded the all clear based on the continued increase in total foreign holdings. To see the bad news, though, we need to dig deeper. We need to ask who picked up the bonds that China’s no longer buying. And then more importantly, whether those increased purchases are sustainable.

To answer the first question, the chart below shows the top ten buyers of U.S. government bonds in the year ended June 2012, compared to the same countries’ average net purchases in the previous five years.



Japan was the star of the bunch, adding $217 billion to its U.S. government bonds. But it wasn’t the only country to significantly increase its positions. With the sole exception of Brazil, each country in the chart set a new record for the change in U.S. bond holdings in a single year.

Now, moving onto the question of sustainability, we need to collect more information before developing an answer. We need a proxy for each country’s ability to absorb U.S. bonds on a consistent basis. And an excellent choice is the current account balance, which tells us how much foreign currency a country is generating naturally through global trade. It was China’s massive current account surplus, after all, that created the piles of dollars that it was able to recycle into U.S. Treasuries and other global assets in recent decades.

Take the five years from June 2006 to June 2011, for example. On average, China added $183 billion per year to its U.S. government bond holdings over that period. And over roughly the same period (I used calendar years for simplicity), its current account surplus averaged $293 billion per year.

China was spending about 60% of its current account surplus on U.S. government bonds, which seems a manageable amount.

But how about the ten countries in the second chart above? Collecting them into three groups (Japan alone in the first group, then the next four largest bond buyers, and then the five after that), I’ve compared their U.S. government bond purchases to the IMF’s estimates for current account balances in 2012:



Defining unsustainable

These results suggest a whole new challenge in the quest for buyers of U.S. bonds. The old challenge was to sustain the status quo of large current account surpluses and correspondingly large U.S. bond purchases in China. We knew there were limits to the sustainability of these surpluses, but we also knew they can persist for a long time before finally correcting. And after corrections occur, such as in the global trade collapse of 2008/09, imbalances can return.

But today, we’re dealing with a different notion of unsustainable. As long as China was willing to buy huge amounts of U.S. bonds in recent times, it was more than capable of doing so. But you can’t draw the same conclusions for Japan, Switzerland, Belgium and so on. As shown in the chart, investors in these countries spent more than twice their aggregate current account surpluses to buy U.S. bonds in 2011/12.  This is much less sustainable than relying on China.

It simply can’t continue for very long.

The results shown above also explain the observation that all but one of the ten countries set new records for net U.S. bond purchases in the latest measurement year. They’ve never bought as many U.S. bonds before 2011/12 because they could only reach these amounts by reallocating assets from other investments, which isn’t something that can be done continually. Again, it’s unsustainable.

In a nutshell, America needs foreigners to be both willing and able to buy its bonds.

China is able but much less willing than it used to be. (Treasury data that isn’t shown here suggests its interest in U.S. securities recovered somewhat in late 2012, but remains far short of the levels of two years ago.)

Other countries are willing but not nearly as able as China, notwithstanding the sharp increase in purchases in the recent period.

And overall, the message in the preliminary TIC data is more worrisome than it may appear on the surface.

Should the final report on April 30th confirm the message, consider it a warning of a potentially disastrous future decline in foreign purchases of U.S. debt.

(For another perspective on the limits to government borrowing, see “Answering the Most Important Question in Today’s Economy.”)
« Última modificação: 2013-04-13 13:51:51 por hermes »
"Everyone knows where we have been. Let's see where we are going." – Another

Incognitus

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Mensagens: 30961
    • Ver Perfil
Re:Negócios da China
« Responder #73 em: 2013-04-13 13:22:25 »
É uma perda de tempo estar à espera que não existam compradores para a dívida americana, quando a FED já é a maior compradora da dita, e se quiser compra o stock todo.
"Nem tudo o que pode ser contado conta, e nem tudo o que conta pode ser contado.", Albert Einstein

Incognitus, www.thinkfn.com

hermes

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Mensagens: 2836
    • Ver Perfil
Re:Negócios da China
« Responder #74 em: 2013-04-13 13:48:02 »
Pois, tudo indica que a FED vai ser a vencedora do concurso, quer queira, quer não, por ausência de mais concorrentes. :D
"Everyone knows where we have been. Let's see where we are going." – Another

hermes

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Mensagens: 2836
    • Ver Perfil
Re:Negócios da China
« Responder #75 em: 2013-04-13 19:04:14 »
Leprechaun,

Tens de controlar essa diarreia para não limpares o cu a todos os posts que encontras.
"Everyone knows where we have been. Let's see where we are going." – Another

Visitante

  • Ordem dos Especialistas
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Mensagens: 3766
    • Ver Perfil
Re:Negócios da China
« Responder #76 em: 2013-04-13 20:33:45 »
Num país bem governado, a pobreza é algo que deve causar vergonha; num país mal governado, a riqueza é algo que deve causar vergonha. -- Confúcio

Uma boa citação de Confúcio, e sendo no tópico da China faz sentido... Esta citação faz cair por terra a teoria, também ela muito bem elaborada, e com grande mérito na sua essência, que a riqueza de cada um é proporcinal ao que é capaz de produzir e trocar com os outros. Já era assim no tempo de Confúcio, há 2500 anos atrás.

Desculpa hermes, não resisti à deixa. :D
« Última modificação: 2013-04-13 20:37:00 por Visitante »

Incognitus

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Mensagens: 30961
    • Ver Perfil
Re:Negócios da China
« Responder #77 em: 2013-04-13 20:36:38 »
Num país bem governado, a pobreza é algo que deve causar vergonha; num país mal governado, a riqueza é algo que deve causar vergonha. -- Confúcio

Uma boa citação de Confúcio, e sendo no tópico da China faz sentido... Esta citação faz cair por terra a teoria, também ela muito bem elaborada, e com grande mérito na sua essência, que a riqueza de cada um é proporcinal ao que é capaz de produzir e trocar com os outros. Já era assim no tempo de Confúcio, há 2500 anos atrás.

Num mercado livre é assim. Quanto maior a interferência de sistemas não-voluntários como o Estado, naturalmente menos é assim.
 
As duas coisas são compatíveis, de resto. Um país mal governado terá mais esquemas que permitem falsear essa realidade básica.
 
« Última modificação: 2013-04-13 20:37:27 por Incognitus »
"Nem tudo o que pode ser contado conta, e nem tudo o que conta pode ser contado.", Albert Einstein

Incognitus, www.thinkfn.com

Visitante

  • Ordem dos Especialistas
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Mensagens: 3766
    • Ver Perfil
Re:Negócios da China
« Responder #78 em: 2013-04-13 23:48:22 »
Citar
Num mercado livre é assim. Quanto ...

O mercado livre é uma utopia. Tudo o que for implementado na prática ficará sempre muito longe dessa utopia.

Incognitus

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Mensagens: 30961
    • Ver Perfil
Re:Negócios da China
« Responder #79 em: 2013-04-14 13:11:31 »
Citar
Num mercado livre é assim. Quanto ...

O mercado livre é uma utopia. Tudo o que for implementado na prática ficará sempre muito longe dessa utopia.

Parece-te uma utopia quando te diriges a um centro comercial, ou compras um carro, ou o levas a uma oficina, etc? A sociedade em que vivemos é razoavelmente livre. Só não é mais porque existem muitos interesses em que não seja, pois é mais fácil de sacar aos outros uma fatia superior da sua produção tornando uma sociedade MENOS livre. Porque pensas que há tanta resistência a privatizar uma RTP ou a deixar que os pais escolham as escolas e estas possam ser privadas ou públicas, sendo o apoio igual e sendo as escolas autónomas? É simples - porque existem clientelas que retiram à sociedade uma fatia maior do que a que retirariam num mercado mais livre.
"Nem tudo o que pode ser contado conta, e nem tudo o que conta pode ser contado.", Albert Einstein

Incognitus, www.thinkfn.com