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Autor Tópico: Porque e' que nos EUA os arabes nao sao uns falhados como na Europa ?  (Lida 23925 vezes)

Zel

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e ha muitos estudos que usam racas sob outros nomes como etnia precisamente porque existem racas e portanto faz sentido separar as pessoas nos estudos.
se nao existissem racas nao faria sentido cientifico fazer tal separacao pois os resultados seriam identicos.

« Última modificação: 2015-09-07 23:54:37 por Neo-Liberal »

Lark

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Três ou cinco (desde o século XVI, na tua citação), não me parece pouco. Mas não é isso o relevante Lark.

O que é relevante é que a expressão raça era utilizada para a espécie humana antes de existiram estudos genéticos.
Depois, quando surgiram os estudos genéticos, alguém disse: a diferença entre as raças de cães é de 12, entre "raças" de humanos é de 7, vamos por o limite (de modo totalmente arbitrário) em 10 de modo a não existirem raças humanas.

A escolha foi totalmente arbitrária. Diria até que, a ter-se escolhido um limite, deveria ter sido escolhido um consistente com o uso corrente da palavra. Mas seja qual for, foi um limite totalmente arbitrário.

Nota: estes números foram escolhidos de modo totalmente não científico. Apenas quero dizer que a diferença nos cães é A, nos humanos é B e que o limite foi arbitrariamente estabelecido como X, sendo que A>B o que permitiu escolher um X tal que A>X>B. Com o Lark temos que ter cuidado nos argumentos.

mas onde é que posso consultar essa metodologia (que tu afirmas ser científica)?
eu leio muita coisa sobre genética (sou fan de neanderthais, por isso é que aturo o neo) e nunca encontrei o termo raça.

L
Be Kind; Everyone You Meet is Fighting a Battle.
Ian Mclaren
------------------------------
If you have more than you need, build a longer table rather than a taller fence.
l6l803399
-------------------------------------------
So, first of all, let me assert my firm belief that the only thing we have to fear is...fear itself — nameless, unreasoning, unjustified terror which paralyzes needed efforts to convert retreat into advance.
Franklin D. Roosevelt

Zel

  • Visitante
Três ou cinco (desde o século XVI, na tua citação), não me parece pouco. Mas não é isso o relevante Lark.

O que é relevante é que a expressão raça era utilizada para a espécie humana antes de existiram estudos genéticos.
Depois, quando surgiram os estudos genéticos, alguém disse: a diferença entre as raças de cães é de 12, entre "raças" de humanos é de 7, vamos por o limite (de modo totalmente arbitrário) em 10 de modo a não existirem raças humanas.

A escolha foi totalmente arbitrária. Diria até que, a ter-se escolhido um limite, deveria ter sido escolhido um consistente com o uso corrente da palavra. Mas seja qual fosse, seria sempre um limite totalmente arbitrário.

Nota: estes números foram escolhidos de modo totalmente não científico. Apenas quero dizer que a diferença nos cães é A, nos humanos é B e que o limite foi arbitrariamente estabelecido como X, sendo que A>B o que permitiu escolher um X tal que A>X>B. Com o Lark temos que ter cuidado nos argumentos.

com o lark ficamos sempre a discutir a semantica mas nunca a substancia, eh algo recorrente

Lark

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Três ou cinco (desde o século XVI, na tua citação), não me parece pouco. Mas não é isso o relevante Lark.

O que é relevante é que a expressão raça era utilizada para a espécie humana antes de existiram estudos genéticos.
Depois, quando surgiram os estudos genéticos, alguém disse: a diferença entre as raças de cães é de 12, entre "raças" de humanos é de 7, vamos por o limite (de modo totalmente arbitrário) em 10 de modo a não existirem raças humanas.

A escolha foi totalmente arbitrária. Diria até que, a ter-se escolhido um limite, deveria ter sido escolhido um consistente com o uso corrente da palavra. Mas seja qual fosse, seria sempre um limite totalmente arbitrário.

Nota: estes números foram escolhidos de modo totalmente não científico. Apenas quero dizer que a diferença nos cães é A, nos humanos é B e que o limite foi arbitrariamente estabelecido como X, sendo que A>B o que permitiu escolher um X tal que A>X>B. Com o Lark temos que ter cuidado nos argumentos.

com o lark ficamos sempre a discutir a semantica mas nunca a substancia, eh algo recorrente

eu só estou a pedir humildemente um linkezinho para uma publicação ou um site ou qualquer coisinha científica que use o conceito ou a palavra raça.
não estou propriamente a pedir a lua.

L
Be Kind; Everyone You Meet is Fighting a Battle.
Ian Mclaren
------------------------------
If you have more than you need, build a longer table rather than a taller fence.
l6l803399
-------------------------------------------
So, first of all, let me assert my firm belief that the only thing we have to fear is...fear itself — nameless, unreasoning, unjustified terror which paralyzes needed efforts to convert retreat into advance.
Franklin D. Roosevelt

Zel

  • Visitante
Três ou cinco (desde o século XVI, na tua citação), não me parece pouco. Mas não é isso o relevante Lark.

O que é relevante é que a expressão raça era utilizada para a espécie humana antes de existiram estudos genéticos.
Depois, quando surgiram os estudos genéticos, alguém disse: a diferença entre as raças de cães é de 12, entre "raças" de humanos é de 7, vamos por o limite (de modo totalmente arbitrário) em 10 de modo a não existirem raças humanas.

A escolha foi totalmente arbitrária. Diria até que, a ter-se escolhido um limite, deveria ter sido escolhido um consistente com o uso corrente da palavra. Mas seja qual fosse, seria sempre um limite totalmente arbitrário.

Nota: estes números foram escolhidos de modo totalmente não científico. Apenas quero dizer que a diferença nos cães é A, nos humanos é B e que o limite foi arbitrariamente estabelecido como X, sendo que A>B o que permitiu escolher um X tal que A>X>B. Com o Lark temos que ter cuidado nos argumentos.


com o lark ficamos sempre a discutir a semantica mas nunca a substancia, eh algo recorrente


eu só estou a pedir humildemente um linkezinho para uma publicação ou um site ou qualquer coisinha científica que use o conceito ou a palavra raça.
não estou propriamente a pedir a lua.

L


ja te explicaram que isso nao eh importante, que o conceito em si eh sobejamente utilizado em papers cientificos.
mas por acaso fui procurar e ha varios estudos com raca no titulo, nao eh dificil de achar

toma la um:

Genetic Structure, Self-Identified Race/Ethnicity, and Confounding in Case-Control Association Studies
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1196372/

queres mais, vai procurar tu.. 

ps: estou a ver as referencias dos meus livros e varios dos estudos tem raca no titulo, es mesmo URSO. eh chocante ver como negas a ciencia moderna
« Última modificação: 2015-09-08 01:13:44 por Neo-Liberal »

Lark

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Systematic review identified suboptimal reporting and use of race/ethnicity in general medical journals.
Ma IW1, Khan NA, Kang A, Zalunardo N, Palepu A.
Author information
Abstract
OBJECTIVE:
Methods of reporting of race/ethnicity in biomedical journals are largely unknown. We aimed to systematically examine the reporting practice of race/ethnicity and socioeconomic status (SES) information in biomedical journals.
STUDY DESIGN AND SETTING:
All primary research articles that reported more than one racial/ethnic group, published between 1999 and 2003 in Annals of Internal Medicine, JAMA, The Lancet, and The New England Journal of Medicine (n=1,152) were reviewed for their use of race/ethnicity and SES variables. Interobserver reliability was assessed by independent abstraction of 10% of study sample.
RESULTS:
There were a total of 116 different terms used to describe various racial/ethnic groups. Assignment of race/ethnicity by self-report was stated in only 13% of papers; 52% of papers identifying race/ethnicity of study participants did not report any SES information. Overall, 16% of articles explicitly stated reasons for collecting information on race/ethnicity.
CONCLUSION:
Our results suggest that race/ethnicity information was suboptimally reported in general medical journals. Terminology used was highly variable. Method of establishing racial/ethnic categories, rationale for collecting race/ethnicity data, and SES information were underreported.

yup. mencionam raça para dizer que não serve para nada.
tens alguma coisa de genética?
ou só agora é que despertaste e foste a correr à net?
foi por isso que demoraste tanto tempo?

L
Be Kind; Everyone You Meet is Fighting a Battle.
Ian Mclaren
------------------------------
If you have more than you need, build a longer table rather than a taller fence.
l6l803399
-------------------------------------------
So, first of all, let me assert my firm belief that the only thing we have to fear is...fear itself — nameless, unreasoning, unjustified terror which paralyzes needed efforts to convert retreat into advance.
Franklin D. Roosevelt

Lark

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What we do and don't know about 'race', 'ethnicity', genetics and health at the dawn of the genome era

Francis S Collins
National Human Genome Research Institute, National Institutes of Health, Bethesda, Maryland 20892, USA. fc23a@nih.gov

A true understanding of disease risk requires a thorough examination of root causes. 'Race' and 'ethnicity' are poorly defined terms that serve as flawed surrogates for multiple environmental and genetic factors in disease causation, including ancestral geographic origins, socioeconomic status, education and access to health care. Research must move beyond these weak and imperfect proxy relationships to define the more proximate factors that influence health.

A small meeting convened at the National Human Genome Center at Howard University in Washington, D.C., on 15 May 2003, titled "Human Genome Variation and 'Race': The State of the Science," marked an important, positive milestone in the turbulent history of genetics, race and ethnicity. Experts in sociology, anthropology, history and genetics gathered together to discuss, in an honest and unemotional way, the substance of what we know and what we don't know about the connections between genetics and race. The few meetings held in the past decade to discuss this highly charged topic have often been unsatisfactory, either because participants with strong opinions tended to talk past each other or, more commonly, because heightened sensitivity to the possibility of giving inadvertent offense caused those present to speak only in politically correct generalities. As a historically black university, Howard University served science and society by sponsoring this frank discussion, and the National Human Genome Center's leaders are to be congratulated for their vision in putting together such a thought-provoking agenda at a time when large amounts of new information about human genetic variation are coming to light. Many of the salient points made by participants in this meeting were captured in the preceding articles.

The meeting at Howard University focused on exactly the right questions. What does the current body of scientific information say about the connections among race, ethnicity, genetics and health? What remains unknown? What additional research is needed? How can this information be applied to benefit human health? How might this information be applied in nonmedical settings? How can we adopt policies that will achieve beneficial societal outcomes?

Is race biologically meaningless?
First, it is essential to point out that 'race' and 'ethnicity' are terms without generally agreed-upon definitions. Both terms carry complex connotations that reflect culture, history, socioeconomics and political status, as well as a variably important connection to ancestral geographic origins. Well-intentioned statements over the past few years, some coming from geneticists, might lead one to believe there is no connection whatsoever between self-identified race or ethnicity and the frequency of particular genetic variants1, 2. Increasing scientific evidence, however, indicates that genetic variation can be used to make a reasonably accurate prediction of geographic origins of an individual, at least if that individual's grandparents all came from the same part of the world3. As those ancestral origins in many cases have a correlation, albeit often imprecise, with self-identified race or ethnicity, it is not strictly true that race or ethnicity has no biological connection. It must be emphasized, however, that the connection is generally quite blurry because of multiple other nongenetic connotations of race, the lack of defined boundaries between populations and the fact that many individuals have ancestors from multiple regions of the world.

Race and health disparities
What about health disparities? Are genetic differences between populations likely to have a role in health status, both in the US and around the world? In many instances, the causes of health disparities will have little to do with genetics, but rather derive from differences in culture, diet, socioeconomic status, access to health care, education, environmental exposures, social marginalization, discrimination, stress and other factors4. Yet it would be incorrect to say that genetics never has a role in health disparities. This is most obvious in the unequal distribution of disease-associated alleles for certain recessive disorders, such as sickle cell disease or Tay-Sachs disease, but has also been noted recently for certain nonmendelian disorders, such as Crohn disease5.

The question of whether genetics will explain a substantial proportion of health disparities for most common diseases is largely unanswered and will be clarified only by further research studies of many populations. Given that the frequency of many genetic variants is not equal in all parts of the world6, however, genetic variations conferring disease susceptibility are expected to be unequally distributed, at least in some cases.

Finding common ground
A vigorous debate has raged in the scientific and medical literature over the last few years about whether there is any value in using self-identified race or ethnicity to identify factors that contribute to health or disease7, 8. Proponents of maintaining such identifiers argue that even if the genetic component of health disparities is small, self-identified race or ethnicity is also a useful proxy for other correlated nongenetic variables, and to lose the opportunity to explore these would be doing a disservice to the public. Detractors argue that race and ethnicity are such flawed concepts that the persistent use of such descriptors prolongs the delay in seeking real causes and lends more scientific validity to the race-health connection than it deserves.

After reviewing these arguments and listening to the debate during the meeting at Howard University, one could conclude that both points are correct. The relationship between self-identified race or ethnicity and disease risk can be depicted as a series of surrogate relationships (Fig. 1). On the nongenetic side of this diagram, race carries with it certain social, cultural, educational and economic variables, all of which can influence disease risk. On the genetic side of the diagram, race is an imperfect surrogate for ancestral geographic origin, which in turn is a surrogate for genetic variation across an individual's genome. Likewise, genome-wide variation correlates, albeit with far-from-perfect accuracy, with variation at specific loci associated with disease. Those variants interact with multiple environmental variables, with the ultimate outcome being health or disease.


Figure 1. Interconnections between self-identified race or ethnicity and health status.
   
Figure 1 thumbnail   
The undeniable existence of health disparities indicates that there is a correlation between self-identified race or ethnicity and health or disease in some cases. But this is a complex and poorly understood relationship. On the left side of the diagram, multiple environmental factors that are influenced by race and ethnicity, and that potentially contribute to health disparities, are depicted. On the right side, the potential genetic contribution to health disparities, which operates through a series of proxy relationships, is depicted. To unravel the real causes, research into health disparities must move beyond weakly correlated variables, such as self-identified race or ethnicity, towards an understanding of the more proximate environmental and genetic factors.



Full FigureFull Figure and legend (34K)

Considered in this context, it is apparent why self-identified race or ethnicity might be correlated with health status, through genetic or nongenetic surrogate relationships or a combination of the two. It is also evident that a true understanding of disease risk requires us to go well beyond these weak and imperfect proxy relationships. And if we are not satisfied with the use of imperfect surrogates in trying to understand hereditary causes, then we should not be satisfied with them as measures of environmental causation either.

What additional research is needed?
The recent National Human Genome Research Institute's "Vision for the Future of Genomics Research"9 outlined a bold agenda for the future, including a number of compelling research opportunities. The meeting at Howard University underscored the importance of additional research in certain crucial areas:

(i) Without discounting self-identified race or ethnicity as a variable correlated with health, we must strive to move beyond these weak surrogate relationships and get to the root causes of health and disease, be they genetic, environmental or both.

(ii) To determine accurate risk factors for disease, we need to carry out well-designed, large-scale studies in multiple populations. Such studies must be equally rigorous in their collection of genetic and environmental data. If only genetic factors are considered, only genetic factors will be discovered.

(iii) To validate quantitative conclusions about genes, environment and their interactions in health and disease for multiple groups, long-term, longitudinal prospective cohort studies, as well as carefully designed case-control studies, will be needed10.

(iv) We must continue to support efforts to define the nature of human variation across the world, focused primarily on medical goals. The International Human Haplotype Map Project11 will open a new window into human variation and generate a powerful tool for discovering disease associations, but the project will provide a resource, not all of the answers.

(v) We need more anthropological, sociological and psychological research into how individuals and cultures conceive and internalize concepts of race and ethnicity.

(vi) We must assess how the scientific community uses the concepts of race and ethnicity and attempt to remedy situations in which the use of such concepts is misleading or counterproductive.

(vii) We need to formulate clear, scientifically accurate messages to educate researchers, health-care professionals and the general public on the connections among race, ethnicity, genetics and health.

Conclusion
The individuals attending the meeting at Howard University represented a group of highly informed and sophisticated thinkers. Many participants had spent more than a decade trying to untangle these complicated concepts. A substantial degree of consensus was achieved regarding what we currently know, but it was impossible to escape the fact that substantial gaps in our current knowledge remain. Therefore, the research and the conversation must continue.

In that vein, the National Human Genome Research Institute convened a Roundtable on Race, Ethnicity, and Genetics on 8−10 March 2004, which was attended by a wide range of thought leaders in genetics, anthropology, sociology, history, law and medicine. A report of that meeting is being prepared for publication. The National Human Genome Research Institute is also sponsoring a consortium of funded investigators, known as the Genetic Variation Consortium (http://www.genome.gov/10001551), which is striving to address many of these unanswered questions.

Much remains to be done, but the meeting at Howard University set the stage for a new era of interdisciplinary inquiry into the challenging topic of race and genetics, an era characterized by openness, freedom of scientific inquiry, an appreciation of history and a respect for differing points of views. It would be naive to portray these early steps as a breakthrough, but the committed efforts of the band of scholars and thinkers involved in these discussions are a good start in that direction.

fonte
Be Kind; Everyone You Meet is Fighting a Battle.
Ian Mclaren
------------------------------
If you have more than you need, build a longer table rather than a taller fence.
l6l803399
-------------------------------------------
So, first of all, let me assert my firm belief that the only thing we have to fear is...fear itself — nameless, unreasoning, unjustified terror which paralyzes needed efforts to convert retreat into advance.
Franklin D. Roosevelt

Zel

  • Visitante
tu deves ser muito burro, mas eu vou explicar:

aqui o importante eh estabelecer que o conceito de raca e etnia sao usados como um unico conceito em ciencia e que portanto o conceito de raca existe em ciencia.  repito: provei que  o conceito de raca existe em ciencia. e tu estavas a negar isso. mas nao tinhas razao.

as conclusoes do estudo nao interessam, alguns sao positivos outros negativos. mas o conceito de raca existe. a nao ser que estejas a negar que existam  estudos em que a separacao por etnias/racas chegue a diferentes resultados por raca. estas a negar isso?
« Última modificação: 2015-09-08 00:29:53 por Neo-Liberal »

Lark

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tu deves ser muito burro, mas eu vou explicar:

aqui o importante eh estabelecer que o conceito de raca e etnia sao usados como um unico conceito em ciencia e que portanto o conceito de raca existe em ciencia.  repito: provei que  o conceito de raca existe em ciencia. e tu estavas a negar isso. mas nao tinhas razao.

as conclusoes do estudo nao interessam a nao ser que estejas a negar que existam outros estudos em que a separacao por etnias/racas chegue a diferentes resultados por raca. estas a negar isso?


provaste que o conceito de raça existe em ciência simplesmente para que o conceito de raça não seja usado cientificamente.
basicamente o que os cientistas dizem é: lose the race thing. let's talk genetic markers.

provaste precisamente o que eu queria dizer. raça é um conceito sem significado científico.

toma lá mais um paper:

L
« Última modificação: 2015-09-08 00:32:40 por Lark »
Be Kind; Everyone You Meet is Fighting a Battle.
Ian Mclaren
------------------------------
If you have more than you need, build a longer table rather than a taller fence.
l6l803399
-------------------------------------------
So, first of all, let me assert my firm belief that the only thing we have to fear is...fear itself — nameless, unreasoning, unjustified terror which paralyzes needed efforts to convert retreat into advance.
Franklin D. Roosevelt

Lark

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In this article, the authors argue that the overwhelming portion of the literature on intelligence, race, and genetics is based on folk taxonomies rather than scientific analysis. They suggest that because theorists of intelligence disagree as to what it is, any consideration of its relationships to other constructs must be tentative at best. They further argue that race is a social construction with no scientific definition. Thus, studies of the relationship between race and other constructs may serve social ends but cannot serve scientific ends. No gene has yet been conclusively linked to intelligence, so attempts to provide a compelling genetic link of race to intelligence are not feasible at this time. The authors also show that heritability, a behaviorgenetic concept, is inadequate in regard to providing such a link.

fonte
Be Kind; Everyone You Meet is Fighting a Battle.
Ian Mclaren
------------------------------
If you have more than you need, build a longer table rather than a taller fence.
l6l803399
-------------------------------------------
So, first of all, let me assert my firm belief that the only thing we have to fear is...fear itself — nameless, unreasoning, unjustified terror which paralyzes needed efforts to convert retreat into advance.
Franklin D. Roosevelt

Zel

  • Visitante
http://genome.cshlp.org/content/12/6/844.full.html
Race, Ethnicity, and Genomics: Social Classifications as Proxies of Biological Heterogeneity


toma la mais urso (usando o search) :
http://genome.cshlp.org/search?fulltext=race&submit=yes&x=0&y=0
« Última modificação: 2015-09-08 00:40:29 por Neo-Liberal »

Lark

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The Role of Race and Genetics in Health Disparities Research

Over the past decade, 2 powerful scientific movements in the United States, population genetics and health disparities research, have re-ignited a contentious debate on the complex relationships between genes, race, and disease.1–3 The debate is fueled by the Human Genome Project, the increased technological capacity to map the entire human genome (the library of DNA building blocks), and the concerted national efforts to reduce racial disparities in health and health care.

Many scientists believe that an understanding of the unique patterns of genes across patient populations defined by race will help identify populations at risk of developing particular diseases and ultimately enable the medical profession to tailor preventive medicine and therapies to those most likely to respond.4 A central premise of this field of investigation is that race is an inherent biological characteristic that accurately reflects human ancestry and the flow of common threads of genetic material in biologically distinct populations over time and geography.

Health disparities research focuses on understanding the complex associations between race, health, and health care. Stimulated by the Healthy People 2010 initiative5 and an Institute of Medicine report documenting inequities in medical treatment among racial minorities,6 many health services, social sciences, and public health investigators have come to view race as a social and cultural construct, not a biological construct to be used in studies of race and human illness.

Differences of opinion on the appropriate way to apply the construct of race in biomedical and health services research raise 3 important questions for medical and public health practitioners, scientists, policymakers, and funding agencies committed to advancing both biomedical and health disparities research agendas: What are the arguments for and against using a biological definition of race in medical research? What is the best way to articulate a comprehensive health disparities research agenda? What are the current and future roles of genetics in advancing the health disparities research agenda?

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USING A BIOLOGICAL DEFINITION OF RACE IN MEDICAL RESEARCH: PROS AND CONS
Scientists in the medical and public health research community are deeply divided about the associations between genes and race in determining the susceptibility, prevalence, and outcomes of human disease.1–3,7,8 Both sides use available genetic data and ethical arguments of social justice to support their arguments.

Pros

Recent population genetics studies have revealed large genetic variations across the 5 racial subpopulations that map to continental ancestry; researchers have found delineation of genetic clusters by racial group and race specificity of rare genetic variants.9–12 Those in favor of using a biological definition of race in medical science claim that these findings indicate that the frequency of variant alleles and the frequency of phenotypes (i.e., external expressions of genetic makeup) vary substantially by racial group, leading to racial differences in the expression of the phenotypes themselves in health and disease.1

This argument is bolstered by examples of rare Mendelian disorders for which the relationship of genes to race is readily apparent, for example, in the Amish, Ashkenazi Jewish, and French Canadian populations.1 Although genetic associations are more difficult to identify in complex genetic disorders, genetic variation by race has also been identified for Crohn’s disease and factor V Leiden, a genetic variant associated with thromboembolic disease.13–15 Proponents of a biological definition of race further argue that there may be important interactions between race and genetic characteristics in the susceptibility to disease, making such racial classification useful even when a genetic determinant of a complex disease is present in all racial groups.1 Currently, the strongest argument in favor of using a biological definition of race in medical science is the genomics movement, a field of scientific investigation that has recently gained momentum by promising to tailor medical therapies using race as a proxy for individual genotyping.4

There are a variety of more hypothetical scientific, social, and moral arguments in favor of using a biological definition of race.1,7 Proponents believe racial categories are useful in generating hypotheses about genetic and environmental risk factors for disease and argue that failure to include variables such as race will retard the progression of medical research. They posit that evaluating genetic differences that underlie health disparities is particularly appropriate when important racial differences persist after access to care and socioeconomic status are taken into account. Ignoring the role of genes in studies of racial differences in the causes, prevalence, and outcomes of diseases, they say, will not make such disparities disappear and will be detrimental to the very populations that opponents of using a biological definition of race seek to protect.

Cons

Those who argue against using a biological definition of race in medical science dispute the veracity of data obtained by researchers who claim to have identified a biological role for race in elucidating racial differences in the causes, prevalence, and outcomes of disease.3,16 The argument against begins with the premise that the species Homo sapiens consists of a single population and that biologically distinct human races do not exist. This premise is supported by genetic studies demonstrating that human beings share 99.9% of their DNA in common and the vast majority of genetic variation (90%–95%) occurs within, not across, human populations.16,17 Although opponents of a biological definition of race acknowledge that it is possible to classify geographically defined populations on the basis of clusters of genetic building blocks, they argue that the public health implications of such ancestral clustering of genes is controversial and that race at the ancestral or continental level has not been proven useful in terms of predicting individual diagnoses or individuals’ responses to drugs or causes of disease.3

These scientists argue that race is not useful for distinguishing polygenic phenotypes such as height, let alone complex diseases where there is little evidence that specific susceptibility-gene variants occur more frequently in different populations. Evidence that genes, not to mention relevant combinations of gene variants, substantially influence susceptibility to complex disease is very limited, making it impossible to predict the risk or outcomes of common disease on the basis of genotype. Opponents of the use of a biological definition of race believe that the immediate benefits of genomics are greatly overstated because it is impossible for race to provide the sensitivity and specificity needed to characterize DNA sequence variation for the purpose of guiding preventive or therapeutic medicine.

This camp also makes ethical and social justice arguments against the use of a biological definition of race in medical research.3,16,17 They use historical arguments to suggest that associating race, genes, and disease could result in unwarranted discrimination at the individual level and could, at worst, result in stigmatization of whole communities and even population eugenics. They argue that an unintended consequence of genetic reductionism, or categorizing biological risk by race, might be the exclusion of other, more relevant, social or environmental factors as potential explanations for the expression of health or disease. Similarly, they say, the promotion of specific drug therapies for a race-specific niche market could distract physicians from prescribing proven therapies. These scholars view the term “race” as a sociocultural construct that reflects an amalgamation of ancestry, education, language, literacy, and economic and social status.

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ARTICULATING A HEALTH DISPARITIES RESEARCH AGENDA
In an effort to meet the ambitious goals set forth in Healthy People 2010, investigators at the Center for Health Equity Research and Promotion (CHERP), a VA Center of Excellence whose mission is to detect, understand, and eliminate health disparities among vulnerable populations such as racial minorities,18 have articulated a health disparities research framework based in part on previous models of health disparities research19–21 (also A. M. Kilbourne et al., unpublished data, 2005). According to this framework (Figure 1 ▶), research in this field naturally progresses through 3 sequential phases or generations: from detecting disparities (first generation) to understanding their root causes (second generation) to devising interventions to reduce and eliminate disparities in health and health care (third generation). In framing the growing body of second-generation health disparities research, this model captures the complex set of individual, medical care provider, health care system, and broader social and environmental factors that could give rise to disparities in health and health care.


This framework also provides some insights into the relationships between disparities in health and disparities in health care. Although disparities in access to or delivery of health care services can cause or exacerbate disparities in health status, health status disparities may arise from individual, social, and environmental factors independent of any interactions with medical providers or the health care system. The model also suggests that interventions to reduce and eliminate health disparities (third-generation research) have multiple potential levers, ranging from individual knowledge and attitudes to provider behavior and communication to the organization and financing of the health care system to broader issues dealing with environmental safety and exposures.

Currently, the CHERP framework for health disparities research and the conceptual model held by many health services, social sciences, and public health researchers define race as a sociocultural construct rather than a set of predictable biological or genetic characteristics. This definition of race is based on a dearth of convincing scientific evidence for (1) a genetic basis for race, (2) a genetic explanation of observed racial disparities in the prevalence or outcomes of complex disease, and (3) the efficacy of race-based genomics to reduce or eliminate such disparities. It is further supported by an appreciation of the potentially negative individual and societal consequences of adopting a biological definition of race as described earlier.

THE ROLE OF GENETICS IN ADVANCING THE HEALTH DISPARITIES RESEARCH AGENDA
The ongoing debate over the application of race in medical research gives rise to important questions about the role of genetics in advancing the health disparities research agenda. What is the role of genetics in the detection of disparities (first-generation research)? In research to elucidate the root causes of disparities (second-generation research), do genes represent a new dimension of the individual that contributes to observed health disparities independently, or as part of an interaction with social or environmental factors? What is the role of genomics in eliminating health disparities (third-generation research)?

Genes appear to have no role in existing first-generation health disparities research, which typically relies on self-reported race (defined according to US Census Bureau categories) as collected in retrospective or prospective cohort studies or from administrative databases. Second-generation health disparities research has identified numerous patient, provider, health care system, and environmental factors that are independent of human biology as contributors to health disparities among racial minorities. Few would argue that lack of access to the health care system, poor nutritional status, biased treatment by health care providers, and unsafe living conditions are genetically determined, and few would argue that these factors are unlikely to play a role in health disparities.

The third generation of health disparities research is in the conception phase; to our knowledge, there are no published reports of interventions specifically designed to reduce or eliminate health disparities. Despite the Food and Drug Administration’s approval of race-specific pharmacotherapy to treat heart failure and glaucoma in African Americans,17,22 the jury is still out regarding the use of race to individualize medical therapies as a means of reducing health disparities.

Genetics and genomics do have the potential to advance the health disparities research agenda in the future. Given the historically polarized debate over the role of race in medical studies, the heretofore unproven role of genetics in disparities research, and the secular nature of scientific investigation, a new research paradigm is needed to move the intersecting fields of genetics and health disparities research forward. The National Institutes of Health’s road map of inter- and multidisciplinary research represents an effective prescription for change.23

As the fields of genetics and health disparities research mature, scholars from all disciplines involved in the effort to eliminate health disparities must fully engage in the ongoing scientific, ethical, and moral dialogue on the relationship between genes, race, and disease. In addition, collaboration between investigators in these 2 fields is essential to gaining a better understanding of the origins of health disparities, determining the contributory role of genes, and identifying the most effective interventions to eliminate disparities. The US Department of Energy and Howard University’s recent sponsorship of a conference on these topics is promising, as is the National Institutes of Health’s support of the National Human Genome Research Institute and interdisciplinary research centers of excellence.24,25 As researchers committed to the attainment of health equity, we are cautiously optimistic that focused multidisciplinary research and educational efforts such as these will inform the collective scientific wisdom on the future role of genetics in advancing the health disparities research agenda.

fonte
Be Kind; Everyone You Meet is Fighting a Battle.
Ian Mclaren
------------------------------
If you have more than you need, build a longer table rather than a taller fence.
l6l803399
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So, first of all, let me assert my firm belief that the only thing we have to fear is...fear itself — nameless, unreasoning, unjustified terror which paralyzes needed efforts to convert retreat into advance.
Franklin D. Roosevelt

Zel

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o que assistimos hoje foi um triste espectaculo, um homem adulto que se diz racional a lutar contra o conhecimento cientifico moderno em nome da sua religiao, parece a idade das trevas all over again

todos nos temos um larkinho irracional dentro de nos, nao vale a pena julgar o rapaz. temos e' de tentar nao ser como ele. boa noite larkinho. boas leituras.

Lark

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http://genome.cshlp.org/content/12/6/844.full.html
Race, Ethnicity, and Genomics: Social Classifications as Proxies of Biological Heterogeneity


toma la mais urso, uma lista gigante (usando o search) :
http://genome.cshlp.org/search?fulltext=race&submit=yes&x=0&y=0


olha que é melhor leres os artigos.
já viste se dizem o contrário do que tu pretendes dizer?

L
Be Kind; Everyone You Meet is Fighting a Battle.
Ian Mclaren
------------------------------
If you have more than you need, build a longer table rather than a taller fence.
l6l803399
-------------------------------------------
So, first of all, let me assert my firm belief that the only thing we have to fear is...fear itself — nameless, unreasoning, unjustified terror which paralyzes needed efforts to convert retreat into advance.
Franklin D. Roosevelt

D. Antunes

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Três ou cinco (desde o século XVI, na tua citação), não me parece pouco. Mas não é isso o relevante Lark.

O que é relevante é que a expressão raça era utilizada para a espécie humana antes de existiram estudos genéticos.
Depois, quando surgiram os estudos genéticos, alguém disse: a diferença entre as raças de cães é de 12, entre "raças" de humanos é de 7, vamos por o limite (de modo totalmente arbitrário) em 10 de modo a não existirem raças humanas.

A escolha foi totalmente arbitrária. Diria até que, a ter-se escolhido um limite, deveria ter sido escolhido um consistente com o uso corrente da palavra. Mas seja qual fosse, seria sempre um limite totalmente arbitrário.

Nota: estes números foram escolhidos de modo totalmente não científico. Apenas quero dizer que a diferença nos cães é A, nos humanos é B e que o limite foi arbitrariamente estabelecido como X, sendo que A>B o que permitiu escolher um X tal que A>X>B. Com o Lark temos que ter cuidado nos argumentos.

com o lark ficamos sempre a discutir a semantica mas nunca a substancia, eh algo recorrente

eu só estou a pedir humildemente um linkezinho para uma publicação ou um site ou qualquer coisinha científica que use o conceito ou a palavra raça.
não estou propriamente a pedir a lua.

L

Já li isso há muitos anos quando estudei genética. Não vi na net. Teria que pesquizar.
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“O bom senso é a coisa do mundo mais bem distribuída: todos pensamos tê-lo em tal medida que até os mais difíceis de contentar nas outras coisas não costumam desejar mais bom senso do que aquele que têm."
René Descartes

Lark

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o que assistimos hoje foi um triste espectaculo, um homem adulto que se diz racional a lutar contra o conhecimento cientifico moderno em nome da sua religiao, parece a idade das trevas all over again

todos nos temos um larkinho irracional dentro de nos, nao vale a pena julgar o rapaz. temos e' de tentar nao ser como ele. boa noite larkinho. boas leituras.

boa note neozinho. tens aí muito por onde te entreter antes de ir para acama.
inclusive um paper a afirmar que a conexão raça/QI é completo BS. não existe tal coisa como raça e não há nenhum gene identificável que traduza a inteligência.

sempre a considerar-te,
urso lark
Be Kind; Everyone You Meet is Fighting a Battle.
Ian Mclaren
------------------------------
If you have more than you need, build a longer table rather than a taller fence.
l6l803399
-------------------------------------------
So, first of all, let me assert my firm belief that the only thing we have to fear is...fear itself — nameless, unreasoning, unjustified terror which paralyzes needed efforts to convert retreat into advance.
Franklin D. Roosevelt

Lark

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Três ou cinco (desde o século XVI, na tua citação), não me parece pouco. Mas não é isso o relevante Lark.

O que é relevante é que a expressão raça era utilizada para a espécie humana antes de existiram estudos genéticos.
Depois, quando surgiram os estudos genéticos, alguém disse: a diferença entre as raças de cães é de 12, entre "raças" de humanos é de 7, vamos por o limite (de modo totalmente arbitrário) em 10 de modo a não existirem raças humanas.

A escolha foi totalmente arbitrária. Diria até que, a ter-se escolhido um limite, deveria ter sido escolhido um consistente com o uso corrente da palavra. Mas seja qual fosse, seria sempre um limite totalmente arbitrário.

Nota: estes números foram escolhidos de modo totalmente não científico. Apenas quero dizer que a diferença nos cães é A, nos humanos é B e que o limite foi arbitrariamente estabelecido como X, sendo que A>B o que permitiu escolher um X tal que A>X>B. Com o Lark temos que ter cuidado nos argumentos.

com o lark ficamos sempre a discutir a semantica mas nunca a substancia, eh algo recorrente

eu só estou a pedir humildemente um linkezinho para uma publicação ou um site ou qualquer coisinha científica que use o conceito ou a palavra raça.
não estou propriamente a pedir a lua.

L

Já li isso há muitos anos quando estudei genética. Não vi na net. Teria que pesquizar.

eu já pesquisei.tens aí muito material.

L
Be Kind; Everyone You Meet is Fighting a Battle.
Ian Mclaren
------------------------------
If you have more than you need, build a longer table rather than a taller fence.
l6l803399
-------------------------------------------
So, first of all, let me assert my firm belief that the only thing we have to fear is...fear itself — nameless, unreasoning, unjustified terror which paralyzes needed efforts to convert retreat into advance.
Franklin D. Roosevelt

Zel

  • Visitante
http://genome.cshlp.org/content/12/6/844.full.html
Race, Ethnicity, and Genomics: Social Classifications as Proxies of Biological Heterogeneity


toma la mais urso, uma lista gigante (usando o search) :
http://genome.cshlp.org/search?fulltext=race&submit=yes&x=0&y=0


olha que é melhor leres os artigos.
já viste se dizem o contrário do que tu pretendes dizer?

L


URSO

Categories such as race and ethnicity can be useful as heuristic starting-points for the investigation of genetic variation across populations. As such, social categories used to recruit participants should themselves be investigated in the course of assembling genomic resources, with the goals of discovering smaller population subgroups that are more predictive of biological relatedness and of better understanding the social factors that confound the relationship between socially defined populations and human genetic variation, factors that also will affect how genomic findings and technologies will be perceived and used by the general public. Only in that way will we be able to improve our understanding of genetic variation within social populations while simultaneously minimizing the risks of identifiability and reification and maximizing the potential benefits of genomics. In the end, genomic research with socially defined populations requires as much attention to the social organization of populations as it does to the genetic organization of chromosomes.
« Última modificação: 2015-09-08 00:44:31 por Neo-Liberal »

Zel

  • Visitante
lark responde a isto: estas a negar que existem estudos que obtem resultados diferentes de acordo com racas/etnias?
sim ou nao?

Zel

  • Visitante
o que assistimos hoje foi um triste espectaculo, um homem adulto que se diz racional a lutar contra o conhecimento cientifico moderno em nome da sua religiao, parece a idade das trevas all over again

todos nos temos um larkinho irracional dentro de nos, nao vale a pena julgar o rapaz. temos e' de tentar nao ser como ele. boa noite larkinho. boas leituras.

boa note neozinho. tens aí muito por onde te entreter antes de ir para acama.
inclusive um paper a afirmar que a conexão raça/QI é completo BS. não existe tal coisa como raça e não há nenhum gene identificável que traduza a inteligência.

sempre a considerar-te,
urso lark

a ligacao entre qi e racas/etnias esta mais que comprovada, estas a negar isso?