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hermes

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Re:Ouro - Tópico principal
« Responder #380 em: 2013-10-01 10:54:28 »
Banca d'Italia says gold reserves key to cenbank independence

By Jan Harvey and Clara Denina
Mon Sep 30, 2013 1:23pm EDT

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/09/30/lbma-central-banks-idUSL6N0HQ16A20130930

ROME, Sept 30 (Reuters) - Keeping gold reserves is a key support to central banks' independence, an official from Banca d'Italia told a bullion industry conference on Monday, dampening talk that it might sell some of its holdings.

Speculation has emerged since the financial crisis hit the euro zone that Banca d'Italia might be pressured to leverage or even sell some of its huge gold reserves - the fourth largest among the world's central banks - to help prop up its economy.

Regulations covering central bank independence restrict them from using bullion reserves this way, but concerns grew after an assessment of Cypriot financing needs prepared by the European Commission showed Cyprus under pressure to sell gold to raise around 400 million euros (341.1 million pounds) to help finance its bailout.

In a keynote address to the London Bullion Market Association's annual conference, Salvatore Rossi, director general of the Italian central bank, told delegates that gold plays a special role in central banks' official reserves.

"Not only does it have the vital characteristic of allowing diversification, in particular when financial markets are highly integrated, in addition it is unique among assets in that it is not issued by any government or central bank, so its value cannot be influenced by political decisions or by the solvency of any institution," he said.

"These features, coupled with historic ... and psychological reasons, stand in favour of gold's importance as a component of central bank reserves," he said. "Gold underpins the independence of central banks in their ability to (act) as the ultimate bearer of domestic financial stability."

Italy holds 2,451.8 tonnes of gold in its reserves. A slim majority of Italians polled by the World Gold Council in March believed their government should use the country's gold holdings to offset high public borrowing costs, although they did not believe they should sell them.

Italy used gold to collateralise bonds in 1974, when it received a $2 billion bailout from Germany's Bundesbank and put up 500 tonnes of metal as a collateral.

EUROPEAN BANKS WON'T SELL

Other European central banks including the Bank of France and the Bundesbank said at the conference that they will not sell their gold reserves, as they can provide a level of confidence, an element of diversification and can absorb some volatility from the central bank's balance sheet.

"We have no plan to sell gold," Bank of France Alexandre Gautier, director of market operations department, told delegates in a presentation. "We are still active in the lending market, but not retail loans. We can see some yields that are attractive, but we realise that we can't lend gold without collateral."

Number two holder Germany also said at the meeting that it will keep its 3,390 tonnes of gold.

PRICE ACTION IMPACTS CENBANKS DECISION

Gold price volatility this year has impacted the buying decisions of emerging countries' central banks like Argentina, Juan Ignacio Basco, deputy general manager at the Central Bank of Argentina, said.

Bullion fell by $200 an ounce in two days in its sharpest slide in 30 years in April before hitting a three-year low in June and then regaining 13 percent from that level.

"It's very difficult to decide when to enter the market as we don't follow trends ... (but) the recent volatility in prices has changed the way we have look at gold," Basco said.

"That's why we have started with the product options because volatility in the market is not good for us."

Argentina slowly re-started to rebuild its gold reserves in 2000s after selling them at the bottom of the market in December 1997 to buy U.S. Treasuries. It currently holds 61.7 tonnes of the metal, representing seven percent of its assets.

"We are accumulating slowly ... and we have to move slowly," Basco said. "We must remember that we are like elephants."
"Everyone knows where we have been. Let's see where we are going." – Another

Messiah

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Re:Ouro - Tópico principal
« Responder #381 em: 2013-10-01 13:55:27 »
ouro a partir-se todo ...

ana

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Re:Ouro - Tópico principal
« Responder #382 em: 2013-10-01 14:03:51 »
a ber q faz aqui na anterior base de c.p.

Happy_TheOne

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Re:Ouro - Tópico principal
« Responder #383 em: 2013-10-01 14:46:32 »
ouro a partir-se todo ...

Levou uma ripada  :o

Happy_TheOne

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Re:Ouro - Tópico principal
« Responder #384 em: 2013-10-01 14:48:27 »
a ber q faz aqui na anterior base de c.p.

Se calhar ricochete ao topo  ;D :o

ana

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Re:Ouro - Tópico principal
« Responder #385 em: 2013-10-02 09:11:27 »
já fechei o curto enquanto estava a dar bom resultado e antes q o demo as teça:D, ele está a tentar segurar-se por aqui, a ber se consegue.

hermes

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Re:Ouro - Tópico principal
« Responder #386 em: 2013-10-04 12:56:53 »
Feliz dia 900!





O GLD não é o único no truque do sumiço:


Source: Nick Laird at ShareLynx.com




Quiz: Quem é que está a ganhar?

"Everyone knows where we have been. Let's see where we are going." – Another

toc

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Re:Ouro - Tópico principal
« Responder #387 em: 2013-10-04 22:23:26 »
O ouro vai aos 900 Hermes??

Que valores apontam para o ouro até ao final do Ano ?
Primeiro a chuva, depois o arco-íris. Se acostume, a ordem é sempre essa.

hermes

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Re:Ouro - Tópico principal
« Responder #388 em: 2013-10-04 23:12:20 »
O ouro vai aos 900 Hermes??

Que valores apontam para o ouro até ao final do Ano ?

Para onde vai o ouro depende de que ouro estás a falar.

Os 900 dizem respeito às reservas remanescentes do Banco Central de facto dos bullion banks: o GLD. Aliás quem encheu os cofres do GLD [a venda do ouro de Sua Majestade (BOE) e a venda do ouro dos suíços (SNB), pois o ouro é fungível] já não está disposto a fazê-lo... Agora é só unir os pontos.
"Everyone knows where we have been. Let's see where we are going." – Another

mibusiness

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Re:Ouro - Tópico principal
« Responder #389 em: 2013-10-04 23:30:02 »
O ouro vai aos 900 Hermes??

Que valores apontam para o ouro até ao final do Ano ?

Para onde vai o ouro depende de que ouro estás a falar.

Os 900 dizem respeito às reservas remanescentes do Banco Central de facto dos bullion banks: o GLD. Aliás quem encheu os cofres do GLD [a venda do ouro de Sua Majestade (BOE) e a venda do ouro dos suíços (SNB), pois o ouro é fungível] já não está disposto a fazê-lo... Agora é só unir os pontos.

e a prata (SLV) hermes, achas que vai pelo mesmo caminho?

então e como fazer para comprar ouro eletronicamente?
« Última modificação: 2013-10-04 23:31:45 por mibusiness »

hermes

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Re:Ouro - Tópico principal
« Responder #390 em: 2013-10-05 00:09:07 »
e a prata (SLV) hermes, achas que vai pelo mesmo caminho?


A prata vai em sentido contrário:


Source: Nick Laird at ShareLynx.com

E a médio prazo os silver bugs farão o seu serviço comunitário de providenciarem talheres de prata, ainda mais baratos que os de inox para toda a gente, quando deitarem as suas espadas de prata fora.

Há um século que os Bancos Centrais se decidiram sobre a reserva de valor e já nenhum tem prata ostensivamente a ganhar pó nos seus cofres.



Vê lá tu que até o interesse dos indianos pela prata é bem limitado: esta só serve para pequenos ídolos e para pulseiras para usar nos tornozelos.

então e como fazer para comprar ouro eletronicamente?


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Nasruddin and the Smell of Soup

One day, a poor man, who had only one piece of bread to eat, was walking past a restaurant. There was a large pot of soup on the table. The poor man held his bread over the soup, so the steam from the soup went into the bread, and gave it a good smell. Then he ate the bread.

The restaurant owner was very angry at this, and he asked the man for money, in exchange for the steam from the soup. The poor man had no money, so the restaurant owner took him to Nasruddin, who was a judge at that time. Nasruddin thought about the case for a little while.

Then he took some money from his pocket. He held the coins next to the restaurant owner's ear, and shook them, so that they made a jingling noise.

"What was that?" asked the restaurant owner.

"That was payment for you," answered Nasruddin.

"What do you mean? That was just the sound of coins!" protested the restaurant owner.

"The sound of the coins is payment for the smell of the soup," answered Nasruddin. "Now go back to your restaurant."


Bem, há um detalhe: o pobre homem sabia a diferença entre a sopa e o cheiro da sopa.
« Última modificação: 2013-10-05 00:28:01 por hermes »
"Everyone knows where we have been. Let's see where we are going." – Another

hermes

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Re:Ouro - Tópico principal
« Responder #391 em: 2013-10-05 14:44:27 »
Segue-se um artigo interessante a apresentar a minha compreensão do mercado do ouro por outras palavras. Uma nota importante, o Jesse está a assumir que a Alemanha pediu o ouro dela de uma só vez e não às mijinhas como o vai receber durante 7 anos...
 
Currency Wars and the Ghost of Bear Stearns - The Mass Exodus of Gold Bullion

By: Jesse
04 October 2013

http://jessescrossroadscafe.blogspot.pt/2013/10/the-disappearing-gold-bullion-from-west.html

Here is one take on the gold inventory conundrum that I posted about last night.  I am not entirely comfortable with the full extent of this analogy.  Perhaps it is because I had always imagined that coat check rooms were for the most part honestly run with no leverage, lol.

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“Quoted gold prices are like a coat check room at a nice hotel. Imagine that over time things develop so that there are 60-100 coat check tickets for every coat in the coat room.

If the insiders that ran the coat room suddenly realized that the value of coats was much greater than the quoted price, what should happen? The supply of physical coats should fall & the “price” of coat check tickets should fall as well as insiders realize that with 60-100x leverage, 59-99% of the coat check tickets are actually worthless because there aren’t coats to back them.

Think about the bank run on George Bailey’s bank in ‘It’s a Wonderful Life.’ How many people get 100% of their deposit claim checks? Only one, right? Everyone else that wants immediate access to their claim check takes a BIG haircut to the ‘face value’ of that claim. What you are watching in gold markets is a slow-motion version of a classic bank run on a highly-levered depository.”


That makes some sense.  There is an informal market in coat checks where the market sets the price.  But those with asymmetric information on the true risks and valuations move the price where they wish it to be for their own advantage.

If you know that there is going to be a dislocation of inventory in the cloakroom, the first thing the average person would do is get their own coats out. And the less scrupulous might buy up all the tickets they could to redeem for other people's coats, and then sell what unfilled tickets that remain at whatever price they might get.  Those doing God's work might even short sell tickets, if such thing was possible, and take side bets against them.

My correspondent goes on to say that a strong message was contained in the valuation that was given to the Cypriot gold during their recent crisis.

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"In the summer of 2007, the BSC subprime mortgage hedge fund basically went to $0, and the message to the markets should have been that 'big chunks of the subprime market are worthless.' But that message at the time was so extreme that very few traded off it.

Similarly, the Cyprus bail-in math (10 tons of Cypriot gold for $10B from ESM, IMF) would suggest that physical gold collateral is worth $31,250/oz in a crisis and that most, but not all, market participants are discounting it because it is such an extreme number.'

It probably is extreme, but some big smart people are buying gold like it is not so extreme, in much the same way that some of those same big smart people turned big sellers of subprime protection right after the BSC mortgage hedge fund blow up.”


That is possible, although one could dismiss the actual valuation as a token gesture to a weakened country. But the international organizations' desire for gold, and the extreme valuation placed to entice it, does suggest that the true valuation of a large quantity of gold in a financial crisis is significantly higher than where it is now.

As you know I tend to mark the realization that there was a serious problem with the request from the Bundesbank for the repatriation of German gold that was refused and deferred for seven years by the Fed. It still amazes me that so few are trading on that event. It was like the earth shifted when I heard about it. How Germany Disrupted the World Gold Market

My correspondent goes on to say:

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"I think if something 'breaks' in gold markets, the COMEX futures, and perhaps other futures exchanges, would be settled out at the prior last trade, in cash."


I think quite a few people believe in that outcome.   We would expect a variation in premiums and valuations depending on how great the counterparty risk, and the ease which one might have to obtain any bullion for which they have a claim.  As you have seen from posting here in the chart below, the claims per ounce on some venues are quite high.

And as for what will come of the actual assets, the gold bars, that do exist after the claims may be force settled there might be some precedent for it.

In a crisis possession is nine tenths of the law, as was obvious to many unfortunate account holders in the collapse of the highly leveraged MF Global.  Even when it comes to clear title to assets and the sanctity of customer accounts,  actual physical possession and a good set of lawyers, not to mention political influence, is a powerful argument.

Do we know of any big players that have gone long gold this year, signaling perhaps a well informed change in their sentiment, even if it is not reflected in their own positions?  I suppose we might suggest a few.

Why would anyone force or risk such an outcome that would be damaging to the bullion banks, and risk the Western banking system?   It might be convenient but incorrect to attribute maliciousness to what is more easily explained as simple self-interest in the best capitalist tradition.

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"Global physical trading patterns are hitting critical tipping points whereby emerging markets are becoming the lion’s share of some global goods and services demand/production and oil demand. And they have NO interest in maintaining the status quo, because they appear to be acutely aware of the fact that the Anglo-American 'exorbitant privilege' has been funded directly by their sweat equity.

Or to put it more bluntly, why would the BRICs want to settle their trades between themselves in dollars so that they can help to fund their own military encirclement that has consistently acted against their interests?”


This brings to mind the Chinese best seller Currency Wars by Song Hongbing that was the Harry Potter of the Chinese intelligentsia about 2006. I have written about it several times as a phenomenon in Asian thinking, in much the same way that some would point to Ayn Rand's influence on thought in the West.

The rise of the BRICs as an economic force is a meaningful development.

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"For the 1st time we have someone big enough, in both economic size and military strength, to break the status quo, the means to do so by moving physical trade settlement amongst themselves away from USD, and the motive of satisfying intense domestic political desires to improve living standards for their people and to obtain more control over the basis for settlement of commodities, which among other things would result in lower oil prices."


I have the feeling that a resolution for this currency war is being crafted behind the scenes, with Russia attempting to broker a gradual currency compromise using their chairmanship of the G20 this year.  The Anglo-Americans are resisting, but primarily for terms, and for time to allow their favorite banks to square themselves up in the face of this change.

Regardless of the background and motives, the remarkable decline in Western gold inventory and the enormous buying in Asia and the Mideast is something to be considered.  To my mind the inability of the US to return Germany's gold in a reasonable timeframe was a watershed event.

There is always the opportunity to attempt to ignore an impending crisis with a flash of unrealistic bravado.   Let them eat billion dollar platinum coins.

And the difficulty of the US dollar in maintaining its status as the world's reserve currency is highlighted by current events, not only the political deadlock in Washington, but also the many bilateral agreements to settle trade in non-US dollar terms.

In summary, there are a number of odd things going on.  And the unhappiness of the BRICs with the status quo is public.

My correspondent and I believe that there will be an 'aha' or even a 'holy shit' moment coming.  But predicting when it will and how it will arrive is not possible, at least from my seat in the house.  By the time the retail investor figures out what is happening the wave of the future is already rolling in.

My correspondent is a little less shy of putting out a forecast but no timeframe.

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"The most likely scenario is that physical gold goes up to a really, really big number in some sort of global currency system reset, thereby completely collateralizing most of the sovereign debt out there.

Gold miners go up a lot, but not as much as physical gold because the governments will effectively seize them and turn them into public utilities complete with annual dividends that are probably equal to a big percentage of current miner share prices."

Sounds plausible as anything else I suppose. We both doubt that they will 'confiscate' the gold in private hands for a number of reasons. A windfall profits tax of some sort would not surprise me, if the Democrats are in the driver's seat, although I could see a greater number of states passing gold and silver friendly laws to attract capital.

What snowflake will trigger the next avalanche, or what I call trigger event will set the tipping point in motion?  I could not even begin to say.  I am sure others have more informed opinions on this, and none of them are speaking with the likes of us, at least not in a crony capitalist culture.  They are busy doing for themselves and their friends.

Let's see what happens. China is a powerhouse now, but it may fall from the heights, as did Japan Inc. which seemed unstoppable in 1989.

But all things considered, unless I was considered TBTF at the very least I would not wish to have a significant obligation to deliver gold bullion in this market structure, even if I had hedged the risk. Sometimes risk can be remarkably hard to measure or even define.
"Everyone knows where we have been. Let's see where we are going." – Another

mibusiness

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Re:Ouro - Tópico principal
« Responder #392 em: 2013-10-05 23:30:15 »
Hermes o GLD tem de deter reserva de ouro físico? porquê? não pode somente seguir o preço mercado de futuros? ou no gráfico eles consideraram que o preço equivale a uma quantidade física?

De qualquer das maneiras qual a razão de essa tendência descente não inverter, porque os bancos americanos estão a perder reservas de ouro físico? mas o mercado de futuros não é global?

valves1

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Re:Ouro - Tópico principal
« Responder #393 em: 2013-10-06 08:33:24 »
Citar
Estás a fazer vista grossa à alavancagem e a fazer de conta que ela não está lá.

O problema é que o mercado do ouro é dois em um:

•Cerca de 2/3 dos humanos compram ouro e cerca de 1/3 compra "ouro".
•Pior ainda, os 2/3 compram ouro quando o ouro está barato [e essencialmente não vendem] e o 1/3 compra "ouro" quando o "ouro" está caro / a subir em flecha.


confirmaste que as proporcoes sao essas ? a alavancagem esta la e contribui decisivamente para que o mercado do ouro esteja totalmente monetarizado, isto e que exista um enorme volume de dinheiro "organizada, instrumentalizada "   que define na pratica para onde o mercado vai ditando a sua logica, uma variante daquilo que por exemplo se passa por exemplo com o mercado de accoes americano onde o a capacidade de injectar dinheiro ilimitadamente  por parte do FED  faz com que os recursos sob sua gestao nesses mercados possam levar esses mercados para onde se quiser .
Sera que esta acentuada descida do ouro nao sera para fazer lembrar aos mais esquecidos que as moedas por muito mal tratadas que sejam pela inflaccao devem continuar a servir como instrumento de poupanca.
e sendo assim que outras alternativas restarao para servirem como reservas de valor num contexto em que ja nem o ouro serve esse proposito ( esta a perder a guerra com as moedas oficiais )
"O poder só sobe a cabeça quando encontra o local vazio."

hermes

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Re:Ouro - Tópico principal
« Responder #394 em: 2013-10-06 10:07:07 »
Citar
Estás a fazer vista grossa à alavancagem e a fazer de conta que ela não está lá.

O problema é que o mercado do ouro é dois em um:

•Cerca de 2/3 dos humanos compram ouro e cerca de 1/3 compra "ouro".
•Pior ainda, os 2/3 compram ouro quando o ouro está barato [e essencialmente não vendem] e o 1/3 compra "ouro" quando o "ouro" está caro / a subir em flecha.



confirmaste que as proporcoes sao essas ?


Soma as populações do Oriente e Médio Oriente:

Segue-se um pequeno artigo a relatar que a procura pelo ouro no Dubai é tal que os vendedores estão a ser obrigados a cobrarem um prémio de 3 dólares sobre o spot da onça troy. Coitados, que tamanha usura! :D

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Gold rush 2013 style has Dubai scrambling

James Doran

http://www.thenational.ae/business/industry-insights/markets/gold-rush-2013-style-has-dubai-scrambling

There is not enough space on airlines flying in to Dubai to meet the rapidly rising demand for physical gold in the emirate since the price plunged to record lows this week.

The price drop led to a rush of buyers for Dubai gold from the Middle East, South East Asia, the Balkans, Turkey and parts of Europe according to Tarek El Mdaka, the managing director of Kaloti Gold in Dubai.

"I cannot find a place for transporting gold on Emirates, on BA on Swiss Airlines this weekend," Mr El Mdaka said. "I am shipping in one-and-a-half to two tonnes of gold every day and it is going straight out."

Mr El Mdaka added that gold is in such short supply in Dubai that he is able to charge a US$3 premium per ounce. "In the last week or so that has gone up from $1.25, $1.50 to $1.75. But now it is $3. We are really squeezed."

Physical gold from Dubai has been selling strongly since the price of the yellow metal first plunged in April. But this week it has taken another historic tumble, creating a buying opportunity for small- time investors looking for gold bars, coins and bullion.

Yesterday the price edged up a little with the spot price rising 0.5 per cent in early trading to $1,232 an ounce. On Wednesday, however, it fell 4 per cent to $1,221.80, the lowest price in three years, capping a 12 per cent decline in the past eight trading sessions.

Some parts of the Dubai market are not so buoyant as those in which Kaloti operates, however.

Gerhard Schubert, the head of precious metals trading at Emirates NBD said that grades of gold known as 995, which would ordinarily be sold into the Indian market, are currently stuck in Dubai.

The Indian government has implemented import restrictions that have been backed up by the All India Gems and Jewellery Trade Federation in an effort to shore up the tumbling rupee.

"A lot of India's gold comes in from Dubai and all of that is stuck here right now," Mr Schubert said.

Mr El Mdaka, who does not sell into the Indian market, agreed. "The squeeze on physical gold in India would have a big effect on Dubai. Luckily though, there is a lot of demand coming from the rest of the world to soak it up," he said.


Para completar a perspectiva da visão do ouro por parte do Oriente e para não estar a dar a China e Índia sempre como exemplo. Segue-se a recpção do Vietname e do Laos aos descontos:

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Gold Demand Extraordinary In Vietnam – Paying $217 Premium Over Spot

By Mark O’Byrne
On 17 June 2013

http://www.goldcore.com/goldcore_blog/gold-demand-extraordinary-vietnam-%E2%80%93-paying-217-premium-over-spot

[...]

The Vietnamese Central Bank sold another 25,700 taels (1 tael = 37.5 grams or 1.2 troy ounces) at a gold bar auction on Friday in order to try and satiate the massive public demand for gold in Vietnam.

The Central Bank hopes that the sale of gold into the market will reduce the very high premiums paid by gold buyers in Vietnam, the largest buyer of gold in Southeast Asia after Thailand and one of the largest physical buyers of gold per capita in the world.

Vietnamese people hold gold as a store of wealth for protection against war, inflation and currency depreciation. In recent months, the bursting of bubbles in the stock market (see chart) and property market and the continuing devaluation of the dong has led to record demand in Vietnam and a surging premium over the spot price of gold.

Today, the premium was close to 5.5 million dong which is the equivalent of a very high premium of $217 per ounce over spot.

[...]


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Gold rush as Lao prices drop

Asia News Network
Thu, Jun 27, 2013

http://sg.news.yahoo.com/gold-rush-lao-prices-drop-060002085.html

Vientiane [capital do Laos] (Vientiane Times/ANN) - The recent drop in gold prices on the Lao market has brought buyers out in droves to purchase gold jewellery while it remains cheap.

According to gold shops in Vientiane, sale prices yesterday were at 5,060,000 kip (US$655) per baht-weight for gold jewellery - down about 500,000 kip per baht-weight on previous months.

Buying prices yesterday closed at 4,812,500 kip per baht-weight.

On world markets, gold prices in New York fell by 6.9 per cent or US$87.80 to US$1,286.20 per ounce on June 20.

Meanwhile on the Hong Kong exchange, prices fell to US$1,290.20 per ounce from US$1,336.80 per ounce on June 21.

According to gold traders, large numbers of buyers have visited gold shops in Vientiane to purchase gold jewellery and bars as an investment.

Some shops at the Talatsao Mall were stripped bare of all of their wares as a result of the gold rush.


É este o choque de civilisações entre o Ocidente e o Oriente e o Médio Oriente sobre as duas noções de ouro tornado possível graças à minúscula margem que determina o "valor" do ouro no presente, via mercado de futuros, pois nenhuma outra commodity tem o colossal overhang de 60 anos da produção anual "pronto" a entrar no mercado.
"Everyone knows where we have been. Let's see where we are going." – Another

hermes

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Re:Ouro - Tópico principal
« Responder #395 em: 2013-10-06 10:17:04 »
a alavancagem esta la e contribui decisivamente para que o mercado do ouro esteja totalmente monetarizado, isto e que exista um enorme volume de dinheiro "organizada, instrumentalizada "   que define na pratica para onde o mercado vai ditando a sua logica, uma variante daquilo que por exemplo se passa por exemplo com o mercado de accoes americano onde o a capacidade de injectar dinheiro ilimitadamente  por parte do FED  faz com que os recursos sob sua gestao nesses mercados possam levar esses mercados para onde se quiser .
Sera que esta acentuada descida do ouro nao sera para fazer lembrar aos mais esquecidos que as moedas por muito mal tratadas que sejam pela inflaccao devem continuar a servir como instrumento de poupanca.
e sendo assim que outras alternativas restarao para servirem como reservas de valor num contexto em que ja nem o ouro serve esse proposito ( esta a perder a guerra com as moedas oficiais )

Ou isso ou a cotação dos sacos dourados está a convergir para o valor intrínseco do seu conteúdo: o vácuo [só 1 em 100 sacos está cheio].

Já agora uma achega para os mais distraídos que ainda não sabem destinguir a sopa do cheiro da sopa:

A razão da compra de ouro físico é a mesma porque se tem o dinheiro no estrangeiro [quando o país atravessa dificuldades] é a de as leis mudarem quando mais se precisa delas.
"Everyone knows where we have been. Let's see where we are going." – Another

valves1

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Re:Ouro - Tópico principal
« Responder #396 em: 2013-10-06 19:44:41 »
Na pratica pode nao haver interesse em tornar o Ouro ou outro qualquer substituto, uma alternativa de poupanca a tradicional moeda no entanto no caso das moedas especialmente mal tratadas ( USD e Yen ) e dificil que as pessoas nao procurem forma de fugir ao sistema (  leia-se poupanca em moeda ) mas e dificil ja que  todos os mercados  estao  precados em moeda   bem controlados e portanto facilmente  susceptiveis de serem tornados pouco apelativos como instrumentos de poupanca mesmo que a logica os faca produtos de poupanca por excelencia.
Na pratica para quem poupa em moedas mal tratadas e como se houvesse alguem a gastar por ti sem que nominalmente tu nunca deixas de ter a referida poupanca, no fundo esta torna-se a prazo  uma especie de ilusao de optica eh eh ...
« Última modificação: 2013-10-06 19:48:56 por valves1 »
"O poder só sobe a cabeça quando encontra o local vazio."

hermes

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Re:Ouro - Tópico principal
« Responder #397 em: 2013-10-07 09:39:39 »
Na pratica pode nao haver interesse em tornar o Ouro ou outro qualquer substituto, uma alternativa de poupanca a tradicional moeda no entanto no caso das moedas especialmente mal tratadas ( USD e Yen ) e dificil que as pessoas nao procurem forma de fugir ao sistema (  leia-se poupanca em moeda ) mas e dificil ja que  todos os mercados  estao  precados em moeda   bem controlados e portanto facilmente  susceptiveis de serem tornados pouco apelativos como instrumentos de poupanca mesmo que a logica os faca produtos de poupanca por excelencia.
Na pratica para quem poupa em moedas mal tratadas e como se houvesse alguem a gastar por ti sem que nominalmente tu nunca deixas de ter a referida poupanca, no fundo esta torna-se a prazo  uma especie de ilusao de optica eh eh ...


A tua teoria seria muito bonita, não fora as partes do "não haver interesse" e a o do decidir não serem feitas pelo mesmo conjunto de agentes.

Segue-se um exemplo da mosca no unguento da tua teoria do controlo:

Nações antigas têm o problema de há muito terem ultrapassado o "à terceira, só cai quem é burro". Segue-se o comportamento do governo indiano:



E no fim, o governo indiano vem dizer à sua populaça que esta se comporte!  :D

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Contain uncontrolled passion for gold: Chidambaram to countrymen

PTI : Mumbai, Sat May 25 2013, 11:47 hrs

http://www.indianexpress.com/news/contain-uncontrolled-passion-for-gold--chidambaram-to-countrymen/1120501/0

Finance Minister P Chidambaram today asked countrymen to contain their "uncontrolled passion" for gold and instead save in financial instruments. "Have faith in our financial sector. Unfortunately, we have difficulty shedding our old habits and put our money in gold," he said while speaking at an event to mark the platinum anniversary celebrations of state-run Dena Bank.

"The uncontrolled passion for gold must be contained," Chidambaram said and reeled out data to show how increasing gold imports are hurting the Current Account Deficit (CAD). People should rather switch to financial products to funnel their savings, the Minister said and added the soon to be launched inflation indexed bonds is a very lucrative option.

He also sought to demolish gold as a hedge against inflation, saying many such investors are finding the going difficult ever since the price of gold plummeted to Rs 26,000 from over Rs 33,000 per ten grams last year.

He said that last year the country bought USD 50 billion worth gold and fortunately, it was able to finance the CAD of USD 90 billion on the back of higher foreign flows and could maintain the foreign exchange reserves level at around USD 290 billion. However, if the flows were to stop completely, it would have a negative impact on the forex reserves, the minister warned.

Explaining the difficulties of financing a high CAD, which hit a record high of 6.7 per cent in the Decemeber quarter of last fiscal, as against the fiscal deficit, another problematic point, he said, the government can borrow from its people for the latter but has to depend on external flows for the latter.

The CAD, which is the excess of foreign exchange spent than earned, is likely to be over 5 per cent last fiscal. Chidambaram reiterated the government's commitment to rein in fiscal deficit at the targeted level of under 5.2 per cent last fiscal and 4.8 per cent this fiscal.

Speaking to reporters on the sidelines, Financial Services Secretary Rajiv Takru said it will take at least seven to ten days more before any action is taken by the Reserve Bank against errant banks in the money laundering probe initiated following a series of sting operations by the newsportal Cobrapost.

He said the problem is not so much with the "greed" of banks but lack of "inadequate attention to existing rules and regulations" which would be tightened. On bank recapitalization, Takru said a majority of the Rs 14,000 crore earmarked for recpaitalisation of public sector banks this fiscal will be provided in the fourth quarter while the request of a few of those which need capital early will also be considered.



E o resto já é história: (des)controlos monetários e mulas de ouro.

Conforme era previsível, eis as mulas de ouro a entrarem na Índia

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In India, An Old Profession Is Fashionable Again: The Gold Mule

By: Saritha Rai
8/08/2013 @ 6:16AM

http://www.forbes.com/sites/saritharai/2013/08/08/in-india-an-old-profession-is-fashionable-again-the-gold-mule/

It’s back to the 1980s in India. The government’s effort to rein in gold imports to ease a yawning trade deficit has led to the revival of an old-fashioned Indian profession: the gold courier. A mule arriving at the Delhi airport was caught with 9 kgs of gold, another in Chennai with 16 kgs and a third in Bangalore with 3 kgs of gold, all in the past few days.

Last week, the managing director of a Singapore-based jewelry store was intercepted at the Mumbai airport with $400,000 worth of jewelry concealed in her lingerie. The authorities said Vihari Poddar had tried to smuggle it in on behalf of a local jeweler and had made several similar runs previously. Poddar, who belongs to the illustrious Mumbai industrial family that owns fabric maker Siyaram Silk Mills, is now in judicial custody.

Poddar’s arrest illustrates that the gold mule is back in business. Sneaking in contraband gold for a commission has become a lucrative again, inadvertently boosted by the government’s tough control measures. Indian newspapers are full of reports on the mules’ inventive ways. One fashioned luggage handles out of the costly metal. Another hid it inside the frame of a wheelchair.

Gold smugglers and couriers enjoyed their heyday in the 1980s and had even been immortalized as villains in popular Bollywood films. But the profession faded away after India’s economic liberalization.

With its trade deficit ballooning, the government hiked import duty on gold twice recently. Import of gold coins and bars is banned. All of this has brought about a resurgence in gold smuggling as the metal is nearly 10% more expensive inside India. Customs and revenue intelligence officials recorded a 365% jump in gold smuggling in the first quarter of the year.

Indians are the world’s biggest buyers and hoarders of gold, and the precious metal is the country’s second largest import after oil. Indians love to flaunt gold at weddings, salt away the metal and take loans against it when in need. The recent volatility in gold prices in international markets has not dampened gold-buying fervor in India. Officials predicted that the approaching wedding season would lead to a fresh spurt of activity by gold mules.

« Última modificação: 2013-10-07 09:49:10 por hermes »
"Everyone knows where we have been. Let's see where we are going." – Another

hermes

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Re:Ouro - Tópico principal
« Responder #398 em: 2013-10-09 18:36:47 »
O Turd Ferguson faz umas conexões interessantes entre as palavras e os actos da Goldman Sachs:

http://www.tfmetalsreport.com/blog/5131/paging-dr-crane

Curiosamente, depois da explicação e de muita ira, persiste em não fazer a ligação óbvia: o cheiro da sopa não mata a fome! :D

A raiz dos problemas [e da ira] do Turd Ferguson é viver no velho paradigma do ouro = "ouro" e de não se dar conta da diferença, nem dos diferentes fados dos dois.
« Última modificação: 2013-10-09 18:42:49 por hermes »
"Everyone knows where we have been. Let's see where we are going." – Another

valves1

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Re:Ouro - Tópico principal
« Responder #399 em: 2013-10-09 22:38:56 »
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How many shares of the GLD did they add in Q3 and how many will they add in Q4? (We'll soon know.) As an Authorized Participant, how many shares will they convert into physical for their own, proprietary accounts? (We'll never know.)

Clearly, all of this has been orchestrated to trick Speculators into selling paper gold. This price pressure allows banks like Goldman Sachs to buy gold on the cheap and accumulate it before the eventual breakdown of the current, fractional reserve bullion banking system

Se nao se confirma  a toria da conspiracao, confirma-se a teoria original que mais tarde ou mais cedo o ouro volta para cima.
"O poder só sobe a cabeça quando encontra o local vazio."