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Autor Tópico: Krugman et al  (Lida 605980 vezes)

Lark

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Re: Krugman et al
« Responder #2620 em: 2015-11-17 17:18:28 »
a economia japonesa esta em recessao, mais uma vez as ideias do krugman parecem estar a falhar


ã?

nunca colocas links ou fundamentação, bolas.

estás a ver algo que eu não esteja?

L
« Última modificação: 2015-11-17 17:21:19 por Lark »
Be Kind; Everyone You Meet is Fighting a Battle.
Ian Mclaren
------------------------------
If you have more than you need, build a longer table rather than a taller fence.
l6l803399
-------------------------------------------
So, first of all, let me assert my firm belief that the only thing we have to fear is...fear itself — nameless, unreasoning, unjustified terror which paralyzes needed efforts to convert retreat into advance.
Franklin D. Roosevelt


Incognitus

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Re: Krugman et al
« Responder #2622 em: 2015-11-17 18:06:33 »
É preciso ver se o gráfico do PIB do Japão apresentado na página anterior é a preços correntes ou constantes. Se for correntes, é uma espécie de "PIB nominal" e não reflecte as variações reais.
"Nem tudo o que pode ser contado conta, e nem tudo o que conta pode ser contado.", Albert Einstein

Incognitus, www.thinkfn.com

Lark

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Re: Krugman et al
« Responder #2623 em: 2015-11-17 18:26:08 »
http://www.theguardian.com/business/2015/nov/16/japan-enters-recession-again-as-abenomics-falters


é preciso pedir...
e devias ser tua a fazer a pesquisa
em real gdp quarterly, já vão três quarters negativos - recessão técnica

L
Be Kind; Everyone You Meet is Fighting a Battle.
Ian Mclaren
------------------------------
If you have more than you need, build a longer table rather than a taller fence.
l6l803399
-------------------------------------------
So, first of all, let me assert my firm belief that the only thing we have to fear is...fear itself — nameless, unreasoning, unjustified terror which paralyzes needed efforts to convert retreat into advance.
Franklin D. Roosevelt

Zel

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Re: Krugman et al
« Responder #2624 em: 2015-11-17 18:29:58 »
o krugman nao diz nada sobre isso ?

Lark

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Re: Krugman et al
« Responder #2625 em: 2015-11-17 18:59:46 »
o krugman nao diz nada sobre isso ?

não será melhor perguntar-lhe a ele?
já viste o sentido que a tua pergunta faz?
perguntas-me a mim se o krugman diz ou deixa de dizer algo sobre os resultados do crescimento do GDP no 3º quarter, no Japão.
resultados que devem ter saído agora mesmo.
começa a pensar antes de disparar.

L
Be Kind; Everyone You Meet is Fighting a Battle.
Ian Mclaren
------------------------------
If you have more than you need, build a longer table rather than a taller fence.
l6l803399
-------------------------------------------
So, first of all, let me assert my firm belief that the only thing we have to fear is...fear itself — nameless, unreasoning, unjustified terror which paralyzes needed efforts to convert retreat into advance.
Franklin D. Roosevelt

Lark

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Re: Krugman et al
« Responder #2626 em: 2015-11-17 19:03:07 »
'pera lá
estes 3 quarters são de 2014, não de 2015

olha, agora como TPC, vai lá tu pesquisar o GDP real dos 3 primeiros quarters de 2015
depois diz alguma coisa
se for caso disso, manda uma carta para o guardian a dizer que se enganaram

L
« Última modificação: 2015-11-17 19:04:39 por Lark »
Be Kind; Everyone You Meet is Fighting a Battle.
Ian Mclaren
------------------------------
If you have more than you need, build a longer table rather than a taller fence.
l6l803399
-------------------------------------------
So, first of all, let me assert my firm belief that the only thing we have to fear is...fear itself — nameless, unreasoning, unjustified terror which paralyzes needed efforts to convert retreat into advance.
Franklin D. Roosevelt

Zel

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Re: Krugman et al
« Responder #2627 em: 2015-11-17 19:42:12 »
o krugman nao diz nada sobre isso ?

não será melhor perguntar-lhe a ele?
já viste o sentido que a tua pergunta faz?
perguntas-me a mim se o krugman diz ou deixa de dizer algo sobre os resultados do crescimento do GDP no 3º quarter, no Japão.
resultados que devem ter saído agora mesmo.
começa a pensar antes de disparar.

L

disparei? acho que so fiz uma pergunta, estas muito defensivo. eh tambem o problema do texto, interpretas agressividade sem la estar.
mas podia ser que soubesses, so isso
« Última modificação: 2015-11-17 19:43:00 por Camarada Neo-Liberal »

Lark

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Re: Krugman et al
« Responder #2628 em: 2015-11-17 19:46:03 »
o krugman nao diz nada sobre isso ?

não será melhor perguntar-lhe a ele?
já viste o sentido que a tua pergunta faz?
perguntas-me a mim se o krugman diz ou deixa de dizer algo sobre os resultados do crescimento do GDP no 3º quarter, no Japão.
resultados que devem ter saído agora mesmo.
começa a pensar antes de disparar.

L

disparei? acho que so fiz uma pergunta, estas muito defensivo. eh tambem o problema do texto, interpretas agressividade sem la estar.
mas podia ser que soubesses, so isso

o krugman é tão público para mim como para ti...
não tenho nenhum acesso especial

two consecutive quarters of negative gdp growth
confirma-se

L
Be Kind; Everyone You Meet is Fighting a Battle.
Ian Mclaren
------------------------------
If you have more than you need, build a longer table rather than a taller fence.
l6l803399
-------------------------------------------
So, first of all, let me assert my firm belief that the only thing we have to fear is...fear itself — nameless, unreasoning, unjustified terror which paralyzes needed efforts to convert retreat into advance.
Franklin D. Roosevelt

Zel

  • Visitante
Re: Krugman et al
« Responder #2629 em: 2015-11-17 19:47:34 »
o krugman nao diz nada sobre isso ?

não será melhor perguntar-lhe a ele?
já viste o sentido que a tua pergunta faz?
perguntas-me a mim se o krugman diz ou deixa de dizer algo sobre os resultados do crescimento do GDP no 3º quarter, no Japão.
resultados que devem ter saído agora mesmo.
começa a pensar antes de disparar.

L

disparei? acho que so fiz uma pergunta, estas muito defensivo. eh tambem o problema do texto, interpretas agressividade sem la estar.
mas podia ser que soubesses, so isso

o krugman é tão público para mim como para ti...
não tenho nenhum acesso especial

two consecutive quarters of negative gdp growth
confirma-se

L

mas eu nao quero ler tudo o que ele escreve, eh mais pratico perguntar-te (assumindo que o les)
« Última modificação: 2015-11-17 19:48:11 por Camarada Neo-Liberal »

Lark

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Re: Krugman et al
« Responder #2630 em: 2015-11-17 20:19:17 »
o krugman nao diz nada sobre isso ?

não será melhor perguntar-lhe a ele?
já viste o sentido que a tua pergunta faz?
perguntas-me a mim se o krugman diz ou deixa de dizer algo sobre os resultados do crescimento do GDP no 3º quarter, no Japão.
resultados que devem ter saído agora mesmo.
começa a pensar antes de disparar.

L

disparei? acho que so fiz uma pergunta, estas muito defensivo. eh tambem o problema do texto, interpretas agressividade sem la estar.
mas podia ser que soubesses, so isso

o krugman é tão público para mim como para ti...
não tenho nenhum acesso especial

two consecutive quarters of negative gdp growth
confirma-se

L

mas eu nao quero ler tudo o que ele escreve, eh mais pratico perguntar-te (assumindo que o les)

nah, eu não sou o teu help online...
isso paga-se. caro!

L
Be Kind; Everyone You Meet is Fighting a Battle.
Ian Mclaren
------------------------------
If you have more than you need, build a longer table rather than a taller fence.
l6l803399
-------------------------------------------
So, first of all, let me assert my firm belief that the only thing we have to fear is...fear itself — nameless, unreasoning, unjustified terror which paralyzes needed efforts to convert retreat into advance.
Franklin D. Roosevelt

Lark

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Re: Krugman et al
« Responder #2631 em: 2015-11-22 17:52:36 »
The Expansionary Austerity Zombie



The doctrine of expansionary austerity — the proposition that cuts in government spending would actually cause higher growth despite their direct negative impact on demand, thanks to the confidence fairy — was all the rage in policy circles five years ago. But it brutally failed the reality test; instead, the evidence pointed overwhelmingly to the continued existence of something very like the old-fashioned Keynesian multiplier.

But expansionary austerity was and is such a convenient doctrine politically that, like insistence on the magical effects of tax cuts, it has proved unkillable. Every economic uptick in an economy that practiced austerity in the past is trumpeted as proof that Keynesians were wrong and the austerians were right; never mind distinctions between levels and rates of change, or the fact that even the most Keynesian economists never asserted that fiscal policy is the *only* determinant of growth. (Animal spirits, anyone?) And in a predictable case of projection, anyone presenting the evidence gets accused of cherry-picking the data.

It’s never going to be possible to kill this zombie once and for all. But mainly for my own sake, I decided to provide a somewhat new take on the evidence.

The figure above covers the period from 2007 to 2015. This is a break from my previous efforts, which tended to start from 2009, just before the big austerity drive began.

On the horizontal axis I show an estimate of fiscal tightening, as measured by the IMF’s estimate of the cyclically adjusted primary balance (i.e., excluding interest payments) as a percentage of GDP. I have some doubts about that measure; in particular, the Fund’s method for estimating potential GDP tends to make pre-crisis economies look much more overheated than they probably were, and hence to make their structural budget position look worse; I think this is especially distorting in the case of Ireland, which has not in reality done more austerity than Greece. But in the interest of clarity, I’m just using the numbers as given.

Meanwhile, on the vertical axis I show, not the raw change in GDP, but the deviation of real GDP from what the IMF was projecting before the crisis. I derive the latter from the economic projections in the April 2008 World Economic Outlook, which went out to 2013; I assumed that projected growth 2007-2013 was expected to continue for two more years to get 2015 estimates.

What you see is a clear negative relationship between austerity and growth — actually an implied multiplier of almost 2. You also see some countries clearly experiencing other issues besides the effects of austerity. Ireland has done badly, but not as badly as you might have expected given the measured fiscal tightening (but see the discussion above.) Finland has done very badly despite mild austerity; the collapse of Nokia and the problems of forest products did the job there. The same is true of Spain, afflicted by the collapse of its mammoth housing bubble.

But the data continue to show an overwhelmingly Keynesian effect of fiscal policy. It take a lot of effort to see anything different in the evidence.

krugman
Be Kind; Everyone You Meet is Fighting a Battle.
Ian Mclaren
------------------------------
If you have more than you need, build a longer table rather than a taller fence.
l6l803399
-------------------------------------------
So, first of all, let me assert my firm belief that the only thing we have to fear is...fear itself — nameless, unreasoning, unjustified terror which paralyzes needed efforts to convert retreat into advance.
Franklin D. Roosevelt

Lark

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Re: Krugman et al
« Responder #2632 em: 2015-11-22 17:55:38 »
Desperately Seeking Consensus

The good people at Vox EU are engaged in a laudable effort to clear the ground for euro reform, starting with the formulation of a “consensus narrative” about the origins of the euro crisis. This is a very good idea: How you think about the past plays a very large role in how you think about what should be done next.

Furthermore, their narrative looks very right to me. No, the EZ crisis wasn’t about fiscal irresponsibility, or failure to undertake structural reforms, or the debilitating effects of the welfare state, or any of the other stories floated by motivated reasoners. It was a “sudden stop” crisis, in which vast capital flows into peripheral economies came to an abrupt halt, precipitating severe hardship largely thanks to the ; fiscal issues were a consequence, not a cause, of this financial harrowing.

But can they actually get the consensus they seek? It’s definitely worth trying. It’s obvious, however, that a lot of people inside and outside the eurozone have strong vested interests in other narratives. Will German officials stop insisting that it’s all about fiscal profligacy? Will Osborne & Co., or for that matter U.S. fiscal scolds, accept a narrative in which membership in the euro was a crucial element of the debacle, undermining their warnings that the UK or the US will turn into Greece, Greece I tell you unless we adopt austerity now now now?

I have my doubts, to say the least.

krugman
« Última modificação: 2015-11-22 18:02:20 por Lark »
Be Kind; Everyone You Meet is Fighting a Battle.
Ian Mclaren
------------------------------
If you have more than you need, build a longer table rather than a taller fence.
l6l803399
-------------------------------------------
So, first of all, let me assert my firm belief that the only thing we have to fear is...fear itself — nameless, unreasoning, unjustified terror which paralyzes needed efforts to convert retreat into advance.
Franklin D. Roosevelt

Incognitus

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Re: Krugman et al
« Responder #2633 em: 2015-11-22 17:59:23 »
The Expansionary Austerity Zombie



The doctrine of expansionary austerity — the proposition that cuts in government spending would actually cause higher growth despite their direct negative impact on demand, thanks to the confidence fairy — was all the rage in policy circles five years ago. But it brutally failed the reality test; instead, the evidence pointed overwhelmingly to the continued existence of something very like the old-fashioned Keynesian multiplier.

But expansionary austerity was and is such a convenient doctrine politically that, like insistence on the magical effects of tax cuts, it has proved unkillable. Every economic uptick in an economy that practiced austerity in the past is trumpeted as proof that Keynesians were wrong and the austerians were right; never mind distinctions between levels and rates of change, or the fact that even the most Keynesian economists never asserted that fiscal policy is the *only* determinant of growth. (Animal spirits, anyone?) And in a predictable case of projection, anyone presenting the evidence gets accused of cherry-picking the data.

It’s never going to be possible to kill this zombie once and for all. But mainly for my own sake, I decided to provide a somewhat new take on the evidence.

The figure above covers the period from 2007 to 2015. This is a break from my previous efforts, which tended to start from 2009, just before the big austerity drive began.

On the horizontal axis I show an estimate of fiscal tightening, as measured by the IMF’s estimate of the cyclically adjusted primary balance (i.e., excluding interest payments) as a percentage of GDP. I have some doubts about that measure; in particular, the Fund’s method for estimating potential GDP tends to make pre-crisis economies look much more overheated than they probably were, and hence to make their structural budget position look worse; I think this is especially distorting in the case of Ireland, which has not in reality done more austerity than Greece. But in the interest of clarity, I’m just using the numbers as given.

Meanwhile, on the vertical axis I show, not the raw change in GDP, but the deviation of real GDP from what the IMF was projecting before the crisis. I derive the latter from the economic projections in the April 2008 World Economic Outlook, which went out to 2013; I assumed that projected growth 2007-2013 was expected to continue for two more years to get 2015 estimates.

What you see is a clear negative relationship between austerity and growth — actually an implied multiplier of almost 2. You also see some countries clearly experiencing other issues besides the effects of austerity. Ireland has done badly, but not as badly as you might have expected given the measured fiscal tightening (but see the discussion above.) Finland has done very badly despite mild austerity; the collapse of Nokia and the problems of forest products did the job there. The same is true of Spain, afflicted by the collapse of its mammoth housing bubble.

But the data continue to show an overwhelmingly Keynesian effect of fiscal policy. It take a lot of effort to see anything different in the evidence.

krugman


Essa coisa da austeridade expansionária é um espantalho (Strawman). Os dois lados sabem que a austeridade no curto prazo é recessiva. A dúvida não é sobre o curto prazo e sim sobre o médio/longo, onde políticas orçamentais equilibradas tendem a produzir melhores resultados. Obviamente para se chegar a uma política equilibrada vindo de uma política desequilibrada, é necessária austeridade recessiva primeiro.

O eixo dos YY no gráfico é absurdo. Trata-se de projectar o crescimento do GDP com base na expansão que precedeu a crise -- ora, as bolhas contribuiram para a expansão e para o seu ritmo, logo projecções pré-crise seriam ainda mais agressivas nas economias com maiores bolhas (isso para LÁ da bolha).

É um texto absurdo devido aos dois parágrafos anteriores. Mas para o Lark, como confirma os seus beliefs, é uma maravilha independentemente de qualquer coisa obviamente errada que contenha.
« Última modificação: 2015-11-22 18:02:03 por Incognitus »
"Nem tudo o que pode ser contado conta, e nem tudo o que conta pode ser contado.", Albert Einstein

Incognitus, www.thinkfn.com

Lark

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Re: Krugman et al
« Responder #2634 em: 2015-11-22 18:01:27 »
Rebooting the Eurozone: Step 1 – Agreeing a Crisis narrative

The Eurozone needs fixing, but it is impossible to agree upon the steps to be taken without agreement on what went wrong. This column introduces a new CEPR Policy Insight that presents a consensus-narrative of the causes of the EZ Crisis. It was authored by a dozen leading economists from across the spectrum. The consensus narrative is supported by a long and growing list of economists.

Giancarlo Corsetti, Lars P Feld, Philip R. Lane, Lucrezia Reichlin, Hélène Rey, Dimitri Vayanos, Beatrice Weder di Mauro
By Richard Baldwin, Thorsten Beck, Agnès Bénassy-Quéré, Olivier Blanchard, Giancarlo Corsetti, Paul de Grauwe, Wouter den Haan, Francesco Giavazzi, Daniel Gros, Sebnem Kalemli-Ozcan, Stefano Micossi, Elias Papaioannou, Paolo Pesenti, Christopher Pissarides, Guido Tabellini and Beatrice Weder di Mauro.

The Eurozone Crisis broke out in May 2010; it is a long way from finished. Although some positive signs have emerged recently, EZ growth and unemployment are miserable and expected to remain miserable for years.

A large slice of Europe’s youth have been or will be jobless during the critical, formative years of their working lives;
The economic malaise is feeding extremist views and nationalistic tendencies just when Europe needs to pull together to deal with challenges ranging from the migration crush to possible new financial shocks.
Worse yet, many of the fragilities and imbalances that primed the monetary union for this crisis are still present.

Many of Europe’s banks face problems of non-performing loans;
Many are still heavily invested in their own nation’s public debt – a tie that means problems with banks threaten the solvency of the government and vice versa;
Borrowers across the Continent are vulnerable to the inevitable normalisation of interest rates that have been near-zero for years.
As a first step to finding a broad consensus on what needs to be done to fix the Eurozone, we have written what we consider to be a consensus narrative of the Eurozone Crisis. It is published today as CEPR Policy Insight 85, which can be downloaded for free from: Rebooting the Eurozone: Step 1 – agreeing a crisis narrative

Although the authors hark from diverse backgrounds, we found it surprisingly easy to agree upon a narrative and a list of the main causes of the EZ Crisis. We say “surprisingly” since EZ policymakers remain attached to very diverse narratives of the Eurozone crisis.

The need for a consensus narrative
Formulating a consensus on the causes of the EZ Crisis is essential. When terrible things happen, the natural tendency is to fix the immediate damage and take steps to avoid similar problems in the future. It is impossible to agree upon the steps to be taken without agreement on what went wrong. Absent such agreement, half-measures and messy compromises are the typical outcome. But this will not be good enough to put the EZ Crisis behind us and restore growth.

This is why formulating a consensus narrative of the EZ Crisis matters so much. Eurozone decision-makers will never agree upon the changes needed to prevent future crises unless they agree upon the basic facts that explain how the Crisis got so bad and lasted so long.

The EZ Crisis was a ‘sudden stop’ crisis

The core reality behind virtually every crisis is the rapid unwinding of economic imbalances. In the case of the EZ crisis, the imbalances were extremely unoriginal – too much public and private debt borrowed from abroad. From the euro’s launch till the Crisis, there were big capital flows from EZ core nations like Germany, France, and the Netherland to EZ periphery nations like Ireland, Portugal, Spain and Greece.

Importantly, the EZ Crisis should not be thought of as a government debt crisis in its origin – even though it evolved into one.

Apart from Greece, the nations that ended up with bailouts were not those with the highest debt-to-GDP ratios.
Belgium and Italy sailed into the Crisis with public debts of about 100% of GDP and yet did not end up with Troika programmes;
Ireland and Spain, with ratios under 40%, needed bailouts.
The real culprits were the large intra-EZ capital flows that emerged in the decade before the Crisis.

These imbalances baked problems into the EZ ‘cake’ that would explode in the 2010s. All the nations stricken by the Crisis were running current account deficits. None of those running current account surpluses were hit.

When the EZ crisis started, there was a ‘sudden stop’ in cross-border lending. Investors became reluctant to lend – especially to banks and governments in other nations. The special features of a monetary union meant that the ‘sudden stop’ was not precipitous (as it was, for example, in Iceland).

Rather this ‘sudden stop with monetary-union characteristics’ showed up in rising risk premiums. The abrupt end of capital flows raised concerns about the viability of banks and governments in nations dependent on foreign lending, i.e. those running current account deficits. Slowing growth produced big deficits and rapidly increasing public debt ratios. When things got bad enough, several governments had to take on some of their banks’ debt, thus increasing national debt ratios even further. This is how a balance of payments crisis became a public debt crisis.

Why EZ membership mattered: Crisis amplifiers

Monetary union mattered since it allowed the cross-border imbalances to get so large with such little notice before the Crisis struck. It also mattered since the incomplete institutional infrastructure amplified the initial loss of trust in the deficit nations in several ways.

EZ governments who got into trouble had no lender of last resort.
Absent a lender of last resort, a small sustainability shock could be amplified without bound due to the deadly helix of rising risk premiums and deteriorating budget deficits stemming from higher debt servicing costs. This debt-default-risk vortex caught Portugal and came close to catching Italy, Spain and Belgium. Even France and Austria floated into the penumbra of debt vortexes at the height of the Crisis.

The other classic crisis response – devaluation – was impossible for euro-using nations. W1
Taken together, these two features meant their euro-denominated borrowing was akin to foreign currency debt in a traditional, developing nation ‘sudden stop’ crisis.

The close links between EZ banks and national governments greatly amplified and spread the Crisis.
This is the so-called ‘doom loop’ – the potential for a vicious feedback cycle between banks and their government. It was one of the key reasons that a single surprise in Greece could swell into a systemic crisis of historic proportions.

The predominance of bank financing transmitted bank problems to the wider economy.
As the ‘doom loop’ and slowing economy raised uncertainty, investment suffered much more than in countries where bank financing is less central, such as the US. This weakened economies in ways that worsened the sustainability outlook for nations and banks.

The rigidity of factor and product markets made the process of restoring competitiveness slow and painful in terms of lost output.
The whole situation was made much worse by poor crisis management. Mistakes were made, but above all there was nothing in the EZ institutional infrastructure to deal with a crisis on this scale. EZ leaders faced the dual challenge of fire-fighting and institution-building – all in a situation where the interests of debtors and creditors diverged sharply and European electorates were closely following developments.

Judging from market reactions, each policy intervention ‘saved the day’ but made things worse from the next day on. The corner was only turned in the summer of 2012 with the decision to set up a banking union and the “whatever it takes” assertion by ECB President Mario Draghi.

The following leading economists have agreed to support the consensus-narrative. If you are an economist and would like to support the consensus-narrative this, please email support.rebooting@cepr.org stating your support and attaching a CV showing you are an economist (business, media, academics, think tanks, etc.).

Supporters of the Consensus Narrative on the Eurozone Crisis (in order of replying)
Silvana Tenreyro, LSE, Sir Charles Bean, LSE (Ex-Deputy Governor Bank of England), Philippe Bacchetta, University of Lausanne, Jorge Braga de Macedo, Universidade Nova de Lisboa, Lars E O Svensson, Stockholm Univeristy (ex-Deputy Governor of Sveriges Riksbank), Andrew Rose, UC Berkeley, László Halpern, Hungarian Academy of Sciences, Refet S. Gürkaynak, Bilkent University, Giorgio E Primiceri, Northwestern University, Peter Bofinger, Universität Wurzburg, Jürgen von Hagen, Universität Bonn, Tryphon Kollintzas, Athens University of Economics and Business, Patrick Honohan, Trinity College Dublin (Ex-Governor of Central Bank of Ireland), Charles A Goodhart, LSE, David Vines, University of Oxford, Fabrizio Coricelli, University of Paris I, Stephanie Schmitt-Grohé, Columbia University, Pierre-Olivier Gourinchas, UC Berkeley, Evi Pappa, EUI, Cédric Tille, The Graduate Institute, Geneva (Member of the Swiss National Bank Council), Stephen G. Cecchetti, Brandeis International Business School (ex chief economic adviser for Bank of International Settlements), Carmen Reinhart, Harvard, Ugo Panizza, Graduate Institute, Geneva, Tommaso Monacelli, Bocconi, Donato Masciandaro, University of Bocconi, Tony Yates, University of Birmingham, Yannis M. Ioannides, Tufts University.

voxeu
« Última modificação: 2015-11-22 18:02:34 por Lark »
Be Kind; Everyone You Meet is Fighting a Battle.
Ian Mclaren
------------------------------
If you have more than you need, build a longer table rather than a taller fence.
l6l803399
-------------------------------------------
So, first of all, let me assert my firm belief that the only thing we have to fear is...fear itself — nameless, unreasoning, unjustified terror which paralyzes needed efforts to convert retreat into advance.
Franklin D. Roosevelt

Incognitus

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Re: Krugman et al
« Responder #2635 em: 2015-11-22 18:06:37 »
Desperately Seeking Consensus

The good people at Vox EU are engaged in a laudable effort to clear the ground for euro reform, starting with the formulation of a “consensus narrative” about the origins of the euro crisis. This is a very good idea: How you think about the past plays a very large role in how you think about what should be done next.

Furthermore, their narrative looks very right to me. No, the EZ crisis wasn’t about fiscal irresponsibility, or failure to undertake structural reforms, or the debilitating effects of the welfare state, or any of the other stories floated by motivated reasoners. It was a “sudden stop” crisis, in which vast capital flows into peripheral economies came to an abrupt halt, precipitating severe hardship largely thanks to the ; fiscal issues were a consequence, not a cause, of this financial harrowing.

But can they actually get the consensus they seek? It’s definitely worth trying. It’s obvious, however, that a lot of people inside and outside the eurozone have strong vested interests in other narratives. Will German officials stop insisting that it’s all about fiscal profligacy? Will Osborne & Co., or for that matter U.S. fiscal scolds, accept a narrative in which membership in the euro was a crucial element of the debacle, undermining their warnings that the UK or the US will turn into Greece, Greece I tell you unless we adopt austerity now now now?

I have my doubts, to say the least.

krugman


Parcialmente correcto, mas não vê ainda a natureza da crise. As economias da periferia foram inflaccionadas por uma bolha de crédito que não só expandiu a economia, como também expandiu receitas fiscais de forma insustentável, bem como emprego de uma forma insustentável. O terminar da expansão do crédito provocou não só o início do colapso das economias, como também um colapso nas receitas fiscais E uma queda do emprego que provocou maiores gastos com protecção social.

Tudo isto é óbvio. O Krugman está correcto em dizer que os problemas orçamentais foram uma consequência, mas são apenas uma consequência parcial, porque em parte resultaram da expansão das receitas ter sido gasta. Isto em vez de os governos terem actuado de forma contra-cíclica como deveriam ter feito o e Krugman até devia saber E apoiar.

No fundo nisso a Espanha até foi bem gerida. Antes da crise estoirar tinha um superávit orçamental, que indicou ALGUM (mas não suficiente) cuidado. Aliás, foi por essa altura que eu descobri que existiam profissões públicas em Espanha a pagar menos, em ABSOLUTO, que em Portugal (para topos de carreira).
"Nem tudo o que pode ser contado conta, e nem tudo o que conta pode ser contado.", Albert Einstein

Incognitus, www.thinkfn.com

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Re: Krugman et al
« Responder #2636 em: 2015-11-22 18:09:11 »
superavits por outro lado sao indicativos de bolhas, nao eh coisa normal

Lark

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Re: Krugman et al
« Responder #2637 em: 2015-11-23 00:54:52 »
Thinking About the Trumpthinkable

Alan Abramowitz reads the latest WaPo poll and emails:

Citar
Read these results and tell me how Trump doesn’t win the Republican nomination? I’ve been very skeptical about this all along, but I’m starting to change my mind. I think there’s at least a pretty decent chance that Trump will be the nominee.

Here’s why I think Trump could very well end up as the nominee:

1. He’s way ahead of every other candidate now and has been in the lead or tied for the lead for a long time.

2. The only one even giving him any competition right now is Carson who is even less plausible and whose support is heavily concentrated among one (large) segment of the base—evangelicals.

3. Rubio, the great establishment hope now, is deep in third place, barely in double digits and nowhere close to Trump or Carson.

4. By far the most important thing GOP voters are looking for in a candidate is someone to “bring needed change to Washington.”

5. He is favored on almost every major issue by Republican voters including immigration and terrorism by wide margins. The current terrorism scare only helps him with Republicans. They want someone who will “bomb the shit” out of the Muslim terrorists.

6. There is clearly strong support among Republicans for deporting 11 million illegal immigrants. They don’t provide party breakdown here, but support for this is at about 40 percent among all voters so it’s got to be a lot higher than that, maybe 60 percent, among Republicans.

7. If none of the totally crazy things he’s said up until now have hurt him among Republican voters, why would any crazy things he says in the next few months hurt him?

8. He’s very strong in several of the early states right now including NH, NV and SC. And he could do very well on “Super Tuesday” with all those southern states voting. I can’t see anyone but Trump or Carson winning in Georgia right now, for example, most likely Trump.

9. And as for the idea of the GOP establishment ganging up on him and/or uniting behind another candidate like Rubio, that’s at least as likely to backfire as to work. And even if it works, what’s to stop Trump from then running as an independent?


Indeed. You have a party whose domestic policy agenda consists of shouting “death panels!”, whose foreign policy agenda consists of shouting “Benghazi!”, and which now expects its base to realize that Trump isn’t serious. Or to put it a bit differently, the definition of a GOP establishment candidate these days is someone who is in on the con, and knows that his colleagues have been talking nonsense. Primary voters are expected to respect that?

krugman
Be Kind; Everyone You Meet is Fighting a Battle.
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So, first of all, let me assert my firm belief that the only thing we have to fear is...fear itself — nameless, unreasoning, unjustified terror which paralyzes needed efforts to convert retreat into advance.
Franklin D. Roosevelt

Lark

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Re: Krugman et al
« Responder #2638 em: 2015-11-23 15:44:36 »
The Farce Awakens

Erick Erickson, the editor in chief of the website RedState.com, is a serious power in right-wing circles. Speechifying at RedState’s annual gathering is a rite of passage for aspiring Republican politicians, and Mr. Erickson made headlines this year when he disinvited Donald Trump from the festivities.

So it’s worth paying attention to what Mr. Erickson says. And as you might guess, he doesn’t think highly of President Obama’s antiterrorism policies.

Still, his response to the attack in Paris was a bit startling. The French themselves are making a point of staying calm, indeed of going out to cafes to show that they refuse to be intimidated. But Mr. Erickson declared on his website that he won’t be going to see the new “Star Wars” movie on opening day, because “there are no metal detectors at American theaters.”

It’s a bizarre reaction — but when you think about it, it’s part of a larger pattern. These days, panic attacks after something bad happens are the rule rather than the exception, at least on one side of the political divide.

Consider first the reaction to the Paris attacks. Lightsabers aside, are Mr. Erickson’s fears any sillier than those of the dozens of governors — almost all Republicans — who want to ban Syrian refugees from their states?

Mr. Obama certainly thinks they’re being ridiculous; he mocked politicians who claim that they’re so tough that they could stare down America’s enemies, but are “scared of widows and orphans.” (He was probably talking in particular about Chris Christie, who has said that he even wants to ban young children.) Again, the contrast with France, where President François Hollande has reaffirmed the nation’s willingness to take in refugees, is striking.

And it’s pretty hard to find anyone on that side of the aisle, even among seemingly respectable voices, showing the slightest hint of perspective. Jeb Bush, the erstwhile establishment candidate, wants to clamp down on accepting refugees unless “you can prove you’re a Christian.” The historian Niall Ferguson, a right-wing favorite, says the Paris attacks were exactly like the sack of Rome by the Goths. Hmm: Were ancient Romans back in the cafes a few days later?

But we shouldn’t really be surprised, because we’ve seen this movie before (unless we were too scared to go to the theater). Remember the great Ebola scare of 2014? The threat of a pandemic, like the threat of a terrorist attack, was real. But it was greatly exaggerated, thanks in large part to hype from the same people now hyping the terrorist danger.

What’s more, the supposed “solutions” were similar, too, in their combination of cruelty and stupidity. Does anyone remember Mr. Trump declaring that “the plague will start and spread” in America unless we immediately stopped all plane flights from infected countries? Or the fact that Mitt Romney took a similar position? As it turned out, public health officials knew what they were doing, and Ebola quickly came under control — but it’s unlikely that anyone on the right learned from the experience.

What explains the modern right’s propensity for panic? Part of it, no doubt, is the familiar point that many bullies are also cowards. But I think it’s also linked to the apocalyptic mind-set that has developed among Republicans during the Obama years.

Think about it. From the day Mr. Obama took office, his political foes have warned about imminent catastrophe. Fiscal crisis! Hyperinflation! Economic collapse, brought on by the scourge of health insurance! And nobody on the right dares point out the failure of the promised disasters to materialize, or suggest a more nuanced approach.

Given this context, it’s only natural that the right would seize on a terrorist attack in France as proof that Mr. Obama has left America undefended and vulnerable. Ted Cruz, who has a real chance of becoming the Republican nominee, goes so far as to declare that the president “does not wish to defend this country.”

The context also explains why Beltway insiders were so foolish when they imagined that the Paris attacks would deflate Donald Trump’s candidacy, that Republican voters would turn to establishment candidates who are serious about national security.

Who, exactly, are these serious candidates? And why would the establishment, which has spent years encouraging the base to indulge its fears and reject nuance, now expect that base to understand the difference between tough talk and actual effectiveness?

Sure enough, polling since the Paris attack suggests that Mr. Trump has actually gained ground.

The point is that at this point panic is what the right is all about, and the Republican nomination will go to whoever can most effectively channel that panic. Will the same hold true in the general election? Stay tuned.

nyt/krugman
Be Kind; Everyone You Meet is Fighting a Battle.
Ian Mclaren
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If you have more than you need, build a longer table rather than a taller fence.
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So, first of all, let me assert my firm belief that the only thing we have to fear is...fear itself — nameless, unreasoning, unjustified terror which paralyzes needed efforts to convert retreat into advance.
Franklin D. Roosevelt

Lark

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Re: Krugman et al
« Responder #2639 em: 2015-11-23 22:00:07 »
Shorts Subject

Last night I was invited to a screening of The Big Short, which I thought was terrific; who knew that CDOs and credit default swaps could be made into an edge-of-your-seat narrative (with great acting)?

But there was one shortcut the narrative took, which was understandable and possibly necessary, but still worth noting.

In the film, various eccentrics and oddballs make the discovery that subprime-backed securities are garbage, which is pretty much what happened; but this is wrapped together with their realization that there was a massive housing bubble, which is presented as equally contrary to anything anyone respectable was saying. And that’s not quite right.

It’s true that Greenspan and others were busy denying the very possibility of a housing bubble. And it’s also true that anyone suggesting that such a bubble existed was attacked furiously — “You’re only saying that because you hate Bush!” Still, there were a number of economic analysts making the case for a massive bubble. Here’s Dean Baker in 2002. Bill McBride (Calculated Risk) was on the case early and very effectively. I keyed off Baker and McBride, arguing for a bubble in 2004 and making my big statement about the analytics in 2005, that is, if anything a bit earlier than most of the events in the film. I’m still fairly proud of that piece, by the way, because I think I got it very right by emphasizing the importance of breaking apart regional trends.

So the bubble itself was something number crunchers could see without delving into the details of MBS, traveling around Florida, or any of the other drama shown in the film. In fact, I’d say that the housing bubble of the mid-2000s was the most obvious thing I’ve ever seen, and that the refusal of so many people to acknowledge the possibility was a dramatic illustration of motivated reasoning at work.

The financial superstructure built on the bubble was something else; I was clueless about that, and didn’t see the financial crisis coming at all.

krugman

still very available


That Hissing Sound
By PAUL KRUGMAN AUG. 8, 2005

This is the way the bubble ends: not with a pop, but with a hiss.

Housing prices move much more slowly than stock prices. There are no Black Mondays, when prices fall 23 percent in a day. In fact, prices often keep rising for a while even after a housing boom goes bust.

So the news that the U.S. housing bubble is over won't come in the form of plunging prices; it will come in the form of falling sales and rising inventory, as sellers try to get prices that buyers are no longer willing to pay. And the process may already have started.

Of course, some people still deny that there's a housing bubble. Let me explain how we know that they're wrong.

One piece of evidence is the sense of frenzy about real estate, which irresistibly brings to mind the stock frenzy of 1999. Even some of the players are the same. The authors of the 1999 best seller "Dow 36,000" are now among the most vocal proponents of the view that there is no housing bubble.

Then there are the numbers. Many bubble deniers point to average prices for the country as a whole, which look worrisome but not totally crazy. When it comes to housing, however, the United States is really two countries, Flatland and the Zoned Zone.

In Flatland, which occupies the middle of the country, it's easy to build houses. When the demand for houses rises, Flatland metropolitan areas, which don't really have traditional downtowns, just sprawl some more. As a result, housing prices are basically determined by the cost of construction. In Flatland, a housing bubble can't even get started.

But in the Zoned Zone, which lies along the coasts, a combination of high population density and land-use restrictions -- hence "zoned" -- makes it hard to build new houses. So when people become willing to spend more on houses, say because of a fall in mortgage rates, some houses get built, but the prices of existing houses also go up. And if people think that prices will continue to rise, they become willing to spend even more, driving prices still higher, and so on. In other words, the Zoned Zone is prone to housing bubbles.

And Zoned Zone housing prices, which have risen much faster than the national average, clearly point to a bubble.

In the nation as a whole, housing prices rose about 50 percent between the first quarter of 2000 and the first quarter of 2005. But that average blends results from Flatland metropolitan areas like Houston and Atlanta, where prices rose 26 and 29 percent respectively, with results from Zoned Zone areas like New York, Miami and San Diego, where prices rose 77, 96 and 118 percent.

Nobody would pay San Diego prices without believing that prices will continue to rise. Rents rose much more slowly than prices: the Bureau of Labor Statistics index of "owners' equivalent rent" rose only 27 percent from late 1999 to late 2004. Business Week reports that by 2004 the cost of renting a house in San Diego was only 40 percent of the cost of owning a similar house -- even taking into account low interest rates on mortgages. So it makes sense to buy in San Diego only if you believe that prices will keep rising rapidly, generating big capital gains. That's pretty much the definition of a bubble.

Bubbles end when people stop believing that big capital gains are a sure thing. That's what happened in San Diego at the end of its last housing bubble: after a rapid rise, house prices peaked in 1990. Soon there was a glut of houses on the market, and prices began falling. By 1996, they had declined about 25 percent after adjusting for inflation.

And that's what's happening in San Diego right now, after a rise in house prices that dwarfs the boom of the 1980's. The number of single-family houses and condos on the market has doubled over the past year. "Homes that a year or two ago sold virtually overnight -- in many cases triggering bidding wars -- are on the market for weeks," reports The Los Angeles Times. The same thing is happening in other formerly hot markets.

Meanwhile, the U.S. economy has become deeply dependent on the housing bubble. The economic recovery since 2001 has been disappointing in many ways, but it wouldn't have happened at all without soaring spending on residential construction, plus a surge in consumer spending largely based on mortgage refinancing. Did I mention that the personal savings rate has fallen to zero?

Now we're starting to hear a hissing sound, as the air begins to leak out of the bubble. And everyone -- not just those who own Zoned Zone real estate -- should be worried.

krugman
« Última modificação: 2015-11-23 22:12:24 por Lark »
Be Kind; Everyone You Meet is Fighting a Battle.
Ian Mclaren
------------------------------
If you have more than you need, build a longer table rather than a taller fence.
l6l803399
-------------------------------------------
So, first of all, let me assert my firm belief that the only thing we have to fear is...fear itself — nameless, unreasoning, unjustified terror which paralyzes needed efforts to convert retreat into advance.
Franklin D. Roosevelt