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Autor Tópico: Krugman et al  (Lida 607147 vezes)

Incognitus

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Re: Krugman et al
« Responder #2280 em: 2015-08-12 01:26:08 »
Competitiveness and Class Warfare

For reasons not entirely clear to me, recently I found myself thinking about Lester Thurow’s Head to Head: The Coming Economic Battle Among Japan, Europe, and America. For those too young, or who don’t remember, Thurow’s book was a monster best-seller in the early 1990s; it resonated with many people who feared that America was losing its economic edge, that Japan was an unstoppable juggernaut, and so on. And it also played into the general notion of global economics as a struggle for competitive advantage, which is a perennial popular favorite.

I was pretty critical of that notion at the time, arguing that economic success or failure had little to do with international competition. But what I found myself thinking about was the question of who really did best in the decades that followed Thurow’s book. And the answer is … nobody.

The chart shows real GDP per working-age adult (15-64) in France, Japan, and America since 1990. The demographic correction is important: Japan has lagged economically, but a lot of that is just demography.



What’s striking here is how similar the three look. Japan lagged in the late 1990s and early 2000s, but recovered. France has lagged since 2010, largely thanks to the eurozone crisis and its misguided austerity policies. But given how much rhetoric there is about structural problems here and there, what’s striking is how little divergence there has been among advanced countries.

What this tells you, I think, isn’t just that international competition is far less important than legend has it. It also suggests that economic growth is pretty insensitive to policy: France and the US are at the extremes of advanced-country regimes, yet there’s not much difference in their long-term performance.

But does this say that policy doesn’t matter? Not at all. For while there is not, repeat not, anything like the zero-sum competition among nations so beloved of business types, there really is the question of who gets the gains. U.S. economic growth has been OK these past 25 years; US family incomes, not so much, because such a large share of growth goes to the very top.

International competition is a mostly bogus notion; class warfare is very, very real.

krugman


Então porque é que no outro artigo o Krugman mostrava a superioridade das políticas dos Presidentes Democratas?
"Nem tudo o que pode ser contado conta, e nem tudo o que conta pode ser contado.", Albert Einstein

Incognitus, www.thinkfn.com

Zel

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Re: Krugman et al
« Responder #2281 em: 2015-08-12 01:51:19 »
a politica externa do obama teve muitos desastres no medio oriente, foi terrivel

depende do ponto de vista.
para quem não gosta de guerra, acabou com duas. tirou a américa do lamaçal que é o médio oriente.
pôs o lobby judeu em sentido.
fez um acordo nuclear com o irão.

diria que isto é um bocado melhor que qualquer outro antes dele excepto reagan e kennedy que fizeram acordos de paz com o soviéticos.

já para quem gosta de ver porrada e sangue a esguichar, foi uma política um bocado desatrosa.

L

acordo com o irao tudo bem. mas o que se passa na libia e iraque eh um desastre historico. o ISIS nao existiria se o gajo nao tivesse saida a bruta do iraque.

Lark

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Re: Krugman et al
« Responder #2282 em: 2015-08-12 02:00:17 »
Então porque é que no outro artigo o Krugman mostrava a superioridade das políticas dos Presidentes Democratas?

ele não mostrava a superioridade. aí é que tu te enganas redondamente.
tudo começou pela negação dos milagres de são ronald reagan.
existia e existe uma narrativa que os presidentes republicanos e as políticas de direita é que fazem crescer a economia e criar empregos.

o que o krugman fez com sucesso, foi negar essa afirmação. provou que era mentira.
antes pelo contrário.
foi criado mais emprego nos mandatos dos presidente democratas, que nos mandatos dos presidentes republicanos. até no mandato do jimmy carter se criou mais emprego do que nos mandatos dos Bush pai e filho juntos.

mas deves ter reparado na nuance que eu estou a introduzir: nos mandatos dos presidentes.

o krugman analisa os números e logo de caras declara que a narrativa de direita é mentira!
depois demonstra que há uma correlação dos mandatos presidenciais democratas e a criação de emprego.
uma correlação, não uma relação causal.
e de facto há uma correlação. nunca ninguém afirmou que havia causalidade.

ou antes:

a narrativa republicana é que estabelecia uma relação de causalidade dos mandatos presidenciais conservadores com a criação de emprego.

o krugman ao negar isto está a dizer nem-nem!
nem há causalidade, nem debaixo dos presidentes republicanos se criou mais emprego.

e tem uma opinião importante a suportá-lo!

a do incognitus.

que já olhou para os números e que sabe que a correlação presidentes democratas / mais emprego, existe.
e que afirma - tal como o krugman - não haver causalidade.

logo o Incognitus, está a declarar claramente: Paul Krugman is right!

L
« Última modificação: 2015-08-12 02:04:52 por Lark »
Be Kind; Everyone You Meet is Fighting a Battle.
Ian Mclaren
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If you have more than you need, build a longer table rather than a taller fence.
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So, first of all, let me assert my firm belief that the only thing we have to fear is...fear itself — nameless, unreasoning, unjustified terror which paralyzes needed efforts to convert retreat into advance.
Franklin D. Roosevelt

Lark

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Re: Krugman et al
« Responder #2283 em: 2015-08-12 02:03:12 »
a politica externa do obama teve muitos desastres no medio oriente, foi terrivel

depende do ponto de vista.
para quem não gosta de guerra, acabou com duas. tirou a américa do lamaçal que é o médio oriente.
pôs o lobby judeu em sentido.
fez um acordo nuclear com o irão.

diria que isto é um bocado melhor que qualquer outro antes dele excepto reagan e kennedy que fizeram acordos de paz com o soviéticos.

já para quem gosta de ver porrada e sangue a esguichar, foi uma política um bocado desatrosa.

L

acordo com o irao tudo bem. mas o que se passa na libia e iraque eh um desastre historico. o ISIS nao existiria se o gajo nao tivesse saida a bruta do iraque.

existia na mesma mas quem morria eram os americanos em vez dos curdos e dos shiitas.

na líbia ele fez - a frança fez; a frança é que operou na líbia com o apoio americano - o que tinha a fazer
não deixar o khadafi massacrar a população de benghazi.

L
« Última modificação: 2015-08-12 02:05:49 por Lark »
Be Kind; Everyone You Meet is Fighting a Battle.
Ian Mclaren
------------------------------
If you have more than you need, build a longer table rather than a taller fence.
l6l803399
-------------------------------------------
So, first of all, let me assert my firm belief that the only thing we have to fear is...fear itself — nameless, unreasoning, unjustified terror which paralyzes needed efforts to convert retreat into advance.
Franklin D. Roosevelt

Incognitus

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Re: Krugman et al
« Responder #2284 em: 2015-08-12 02:05:37 »
A questão é que:
* Primeiro, muito do que é determinado numa economia vem de trás;
* E segundo, as políticas não mudam o suficiente de uns políticos para outros para mudarem muito a trajectória (a menos que se tenha uma revolução como em Portugal). Fora revoluções os problemas ou vantagens demoram a manifestar-se.

Sobre idolatrar este ou aquele, isso não faço ideia. Não é o meu caso e penso que não é o caso de ninguém aqui.

Sobre determinadas políticas poderem ter impacto a prazo, isso podem.
"Nem tudo o que pode ser contado conta, e nem tudo o que conta pode ser contado.", Albert Einstein

Incognitus, www.thinkfn.com

Lark

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Re: Krugman et al
« Responder #2285 em: 2015-08-12 02:10:12 »
A questão é que:
* Primeiro, muito do que é determinado numa economia vem de trás;
* E segundo, as políticas não mudam o suficiente de uns políticos para outros para mudarem muito a trajectória (a menos que se tenha uma revolução como em Portugal). Fora revoluções os problemas ou vantagens demoram a manifestar-se.

Sobre idolatrar este ou aquele, isso não faço ideia. Não é o meu caso e penso que não é o caso de ninguém aqui.

Sobre determinadas políticas poderem ter impacto a prazo, isso podem.

eu não disse que idolatravas ou deixavas de idolatrar. nem tudo o que se escreve é referente a ti.
o que eu referi foi uma narrativa republicana. que é falsa.

e que o krugman ao provar a falsidade da afirmação republicana estabeleceu que:

debaixo dos presidentes democratas se criou mais emprego
não há relação de causalidade entre um presidente ser democrata ou republicano com a criação de emprego. existe apenas uma correlação.

só isto.
que, suponho, será o que tu também dizes.

L
« Última modificação: 2015-08-12 02:11:05 por Lark »
Be Kind; Everyone You Meet is Fighting a Battle.
Ian Mclaren
------------------------------
If you have more than you need, build a longer table rather than a taller fence.
l6l803399
-------------------------------------------
So, first of all, let me assert my firm belief that the only thing we have to fear is...fear itself — nameless, unreasoning, unjustified terror which paralyzes needed efforts to convert retreat into advance.
Franklin D. Roosevelt

Incognitus

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Re: Krugman et al
« Responder #2286 em: 2015-08-12 03:02:55 »
Grosso modo, mas não faço ideia se essa "afirmação Republicana" sequer existe. Dentro do partido Republicano existem muitas correntes, aliás, é algo que é um problema, com ideias libertárias a partilharem o partido com alucinados religiosos e coisas assim.
"Nem tudo o que pode ser contado conta, e nem tudo o que conta pode ser contado.", Albert Einstein

Incognitus, www.thinkfn.com

Zel

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Re: Krugman et al
« Responder #2287 em: 2015-08-12 11:37:28 »
a politica externa do obama teve muitos desastres no medio oriente, foi terrivel

depende do ponto de vista.
para quem não gosta de guerra, acabou com duas. tirou a américa do lamaçal que é o médio oriente.
pôs o lobby judeu em sentido.
fez um acordo nuclear com o irão.

diria que isto é um bocado melhor que qualquer outro antes dele excepto reagan e kennedy que fizeram acordos de paz com o soviéticos.

já para quem gosta de ver porrada e sangue a esguichar, foi uma política um bocado desatrosa.

L

acordo com o irao tudo bem. mas o que se passa na libia e iraque eh um desastre historico. o ISIS nao existiria se o gajo nao tivesse saida a bruta do iraque.

existia na mesma mas quem morria eram os americanos em vez dos curdos e dos shiitas.

na líbia ele fez - a frança fez; a frança é que operou na líbia com o apoio americano - o que tinha a fazer
não deixar o khadafi massacrar a população de benghazi.

L

o que gerou o ISIS foram os problemas em ter xiitas no governo e sunitas fora do poder, isso so foi possivel qd os americanos sairam
« Última modificação: 2015-08-26 20:16:50 por Neo-Liberal »

vbm

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Re: Krugman et al
« Responder #2288 em: 2015-08-12 14:50:02 »
o que gerou o ISIS foram os problemas em xiitas no governo e sunitas fora do poder, isso so foi possivel qd os americanos sairam

Não acompanho as dissensões do Médio Oriente,
só por guia tanho «ideias feitas», simplificadas.

Como a dos xihitas serem teocráticos,
e os sunitas preferirem políticos
laicos ou amorais.

Por inclinação republicana,
aprecio os sunitas.

Mas não entendo que se ponham
a degolar prisioneiros ocidentais
e a destruir ruinas de civilizações
                                        extintas.]

Thunder

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Re: Krugman et al
« Responder #2289 em: 2015-08-24 13:48:34 »
Debt Is Good

Rand Paul said something funny the other day. No, really — although of course it wasn’t intentional. On his Twitter account he decried the irresponsibility of American fiscal policy, declaring, “The last time the United States was debt free was 1835.”

Wags quickly noted that the U.S. economy has, on the whole, done pretty well these past 180 years, suggesting that having the government owe the private sector money might not be all that bad a thing. The British government, by the way, has been in debt for more than three centuries, an era spanning the Industrial Revolution, victory over Napoleon, and more.

But is the point simply that public debt isn’t as bad as legend has it? Or can government debt actually be a good thing?

Believe it or not, many economists argue that the economy needs a sufficient amount of public debt out there to function well. And how much is sufficient? Maybe more than we currently have. That is, there’s a reasonable argument to be made that part of what ails the world economy right now is that governments aren’t deep enough in debt.

I know that may sound crazy. After all, we’ve spent much of the past five or six years in a state of fiscal panic, with all the Very Serious People declaring that we must slash deficits and reduce debt now now now or we’ll turn into Greece, Greece I tell you.

But the power of the deficit scolds was always a triumph of ideology over evidence, and a growing number of genuinely serious people — most recently Narayana Kocherlakota, the departing president of the Minneapolis Fed — are making the case that we need more, not less, government debt.

Why?

One answer is that issuing debt is a way to pay for useful things, and we should do more of that when the price is right. The United States suffers from obvious deficiencies in roads, rails, water systems and more; meanwhile, the federal government can borrow at historically low interest rates. So this is a very good time to be borrowing and investing in the future, and a very bad time for what has actually happened: an unprecedented decline in public construction spending adjusted for population growth and inflation.

Beyond that, those very low interest rates are telling us something about what markets want. I’ve already mentioned that having at least some government debt outstanding helps the economy function better. How so? The answer, according to M.I.T.’s Ricardo Caballero and others, is that the debt of stable, reliable governments provides “safe assets” that help investors manage risks, make transactions easier and avoid a destructive scramble for cash.

Now, in principle the private sector can also create safe assets, such as deposits in banks that are universally perceived as sound. In the years before the 2008 financial crisis Wall Street claimed to have invented whole new classes of safe assets by slicing and dicing cash flows from subprime mortgages and other sources.

But all of that supposedly brilliant financial engineering turned out to be a con job: When the housing bubble burst, all that AAA-rated paper turned into sludge. So investors scurried back into the haven provided by the debt of the United States and a few other major economies. In the process they drove interest rates on that debt way down.

And those low interest rates, Mr. Kocherlakota declares, are a problem. When interest rates on government debt are very low even when the economy is strong, there’s not much room to cut them when the economy is weak, making it much harder to fight recessions. There may also be consequences for financial stability: Very low returns on safe assets may push investors into too much risk-taking — or for that matter encourage another round of destructive Wall Street hocus-pocus.

What can be done? Simply raising interest rates, as some financial types keep demanding (with an eye on their own bottom lines), would undermine our still-fragile recovery. What we need are policies that would permit higher rates in good times without causing a slump. And one such policy, Mr. Kocherlakota argues, would be targeting a higher level of debt.

In other words, the great debt panic that warped the U.S. political scene from 2010 to 2012, and still dominates economic discussion in Britain and the eurozone, was even more wrongheaded than those of us in the anti-austerity camp realized.

Not only were governments that listened to the fiscal scolds kicking the economy when it was down, prolonging the slump; not only were they slashing public investment at the very moment bond investors were practically pleading with them to spend more; they may have been setting us up for future crises.

And the ironic thing is that these foolish policies, and all the human suffering they created, were sold with appeals to prudence and fiscal responsibility.
Nullius in Verba
Divide et Impera
Não há almoços grátis
Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored
Bulls make money, bears make money.... pigs get slaughtered

Thunder

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Re: Krugman et al
« Responder #2290 em: 2015-08-24 13:54:22 »
Acho que isolar a questão da dívida pública é uma visão limitada da questão.
O somatório da divida pública, privada e empresarial é assustadora na maioria dos países desenvolvidos. Como as economias podem carburar carregando um reboque desta dimensão? E a quantidade de rendimento (do país como um todo) que é consumido no serviço da dívida? Para mim é empurrar o problema com a barriga e continuar a deixar um legado triste para os cidadãos futuros.

« Última modificação: 2015-08-24 13:55:12 por Thunder »
Nullius in Verba
Divide et Impera
Não há almoços grátis
Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored
Bulls make money, bears make money.... pigs get slaughtered

vbm

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Re: Krugman et al
« Responder #2291 em: 2015-08-24 23:52:49 »
Acho que isolar a questão da dívida pública é uma visão limitada da questão.
O somatório da divida pública, privada e empresarial é assustadora na maioria dos países desenvolvidos. Como as economias podem carburar carregando um reboque desta dimensão? E a quantidade de rendimento (do país como um todo) que é consumido no serviço da dívida? Para mim é empurrar o problema com a barriga e continuar a deixar um legado triste para os cidadãos futuros.


Em boa verdade, as questões acima que levam a interrogares-te não têm propriamente sentido no  ponto de vista do grau de endividamento! De facto, o dinheiro emprestado, tal como o capital-acções de um empreendimento, cumulam o investimento e o fundo de maneio requerido para a actividade de cada negócio («negação-do-ócio»). Desse modo, ou o rendimento da actividade reembolsa os custos que implica - a saber, os materiais, salários, reintegração do capital fixo, lucro compensador do custo médio dos capitais aforrados e nível de risco do negócio - ou não; neste último caso, o negócio encerra; no caso do negócio render, os accionistas que não  queiram pagar tanto juros aos credores, podem investir o seu próprio capital-dinheiro em vez de o pedirem emprestado. Portanto, o problema do endividamento excessivo reduz-se à opção por investimentos não-rentáveis (i.e., sem interesse, relativo, nenhum!), porventura apenas granjeadores de luvas extra-contabilísticas...

« Última modificação: 2015-08-24 23:53:54 por vbm »

Thunder

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Re: Krugman et al
« Responder #2292 em: 2015-08-26 10:55:23 »
Se bem entendo o que queres dizer é que a dívida em si não é um problema pois o mercado a funcionar tratará de regular a situação.

vbm:
"o rendimento da actividade reembolsa os custos que implica ... ou não; neste último caso, o negócio encerra ... Portanto, o problema do endividamento excessivo reduz-se à opção por investimentos não-rentáveis (i.e., sem interesse, relativo, nenhum!), porventura apenas granjeadores de luvas extra-contabilísticas..."

(Bolds da minha autoria)

Já viste por exemplo as dívidas dos clubes de futebol? O nível de dívida é constantemente crescente. O processo que descreves não acontece.
Já viste no caso do BES a quantidade de capital que conseguiram investir, sem sentido nenhum?
Como vimos em n situações por este mundo fora os bancos não tem esse cuidado extremo em alocar e selecionar com cuidado os empréstimos que atribuem. Uma quantidade enorme de capital vai para actividades pouco produtivas (ou é desviado). Quando o banco estiver em maus lençóis lá vem o contribuinte aguentar o estouro.

A pressão (em baixa) sobre as taxas de juro das obrigações governamentais distorceu completamente o mercado obrigacionista ligado a empresas.
Obrigações High Yield (e não só) atingiram níveis de preço alto, que distorceram completamente a rentabilidade. Isso facilita a um maior endividamento do tipo de empresas que na tua descrição iriam ter problemas ou falir. Ou seja, conseguem adiar o que na maioria das vezes será inevitável.
Ou permite que façam grandes investimentos. Logo ... empresas que não são propriamente brilhantes conseguem investir ainda mais. Para mim isso dará uma enorme má alocação de capital.
E os governos que por norma são péssimos investidores, estão também a poder continuar a aumentar os níveis de dívida e a alocar mais capital de forma "errada". Ou o que é mais grave, a continuarem a alimentar esquemas de desvio de capital público. O caso da China parece-me um exemplo brutal.

Se reparares tu próprio dizes que os investimentos não rentáveis são um problema. Se calhar o problema é a escala. Tu acharás que são em pequena escala. Eu interpreto que terão uma grande peso.

Daí achar que os cidadãos futuros terão um lastro bem grande para carregar.

Por estes motivos não concordo com a opinião do Krugman. Para mim coloca duma forma demasiado "light" algo que já neste momento é um problema brutal. Se ainda expandir mais como ele sugere acho que será dramático.


« Última modificação: 2015-08-26 11:06:22 por Thunder »
Nullius in Verba
Divide et Impera
Não há almoços grátis
Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored
Bulls make money, bears make money.... pigs get slaughtered

vbm

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Re: Krugman et al
« Responder #2293 em: 2015-08-26 20:01:12 »
Não li o artigo de Krugman. É de ler?

Os casos que citas não têm a ver com
a economia dos povos. São esquemas
<ponzi>, apostas de casino, bi ou
multilaterais. Os estados pagam-
-nos por corrupção pelos vígaros.
Casos de polícia. Não de economia

Lark

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Re: Krugman et al
« Responder #2294 em: 2015-08-28 21:28:47 »
ouch! o krugman está em brasa hoje...

Paul Krugman - New York Times Blog
AUG 28 9:57 AM Aug 28 9:57 am 78

Fear of Asymmetry

David Roberts has a very nice essay on American politics, framed as an analysis of what nerds don’t get; but it’s not just nerds who seem weirdly blind to the reality here.

One problem with the essay, however, is that Roberts never really explains why people who pride themselves on their ability to think things through slide into lazy cliches when it comes to politics. And that’s important: just lecturing Silicon Valley types on the need to get serious about politics won’t work if there are deeper reasons smart people get stupid when politics enters the picture.

Here’s how I see it: it’s about self-image. Tech types like to imagine themselves above the fray, operating on a higher plane than those grubby political types. But if you get serious about US politics, you realize that this is actually an irresponsible pose. As Roberts says, the parties are not symmetric, and wisdom does not lie somewhere between the extremists on both sides. In fact, policies that the tech elite support, like carbon taxes, are supported only by the left wing of the Democratic Party; the entire Republican Party is controlled by climate denialists, and anti-science types more broadly. And in general the modern GOP is basically anti-rational analysis; it’s at war not just with the welfare state but with the Enlightenment.

But for an ubernerd to acknowledge this reality would be to sound, horrors, partisan. And so they refuse to go there; all their belief in data and careful analysis gets set aside when it comes to politics, because the political data — and there really are a lot of data on all this — tell you what they don’t want to hear.

As readers might guess, I face some personal frustration here. When it comes to economics, I try to base what I say on evidence and on models that have stood the test of confrontation with evidence; but I often encounter people who assume that I’m just a left-wing version of Stephen Moore. Why do they believe that? Have they actually looked at my analysis and track record? No, they just know that I’m much more critical of the right than of the left, and they assume that this means ipso facto that I’m biased. But what if in modern America the right is much more wrong than the left? Not a possibility they’re willing to contemplate.

So are efforts to change this futile? I hope not. Roberts may well have the right approach: keep stressing the evidence of political asymmetry. Maybe, maybe, someone will listen.

krugman
« Última modificação: 2015-08-28 21:30:37 por Lark »
Be Kind; Everyone You Meet is Fighting a Battle.
Ian Mclaren
------------------------------
If you have more than you need, build a longer table rather than a taller fence.
l6l803399
-------------------------------------------
So, first of all, let me assert my firm belief that the only thing we have to fear is...fear itself — nameless, unreasoning, unjustified terror which paralyzes needed efforts to convert retreat into advance.
Franklin D. Roosevelt

Lark

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Re: Krugman et al
« Responder #2295 em: 2015-09-05 01:45:31 »
The Fed Should Remember the 90s

I’m (a) having a good time (b) jet-lagged to the point of madness, so posting limited. But I do want to weigh in on the latest job report and the Fed.

Headline unemployment, at 5.1 percent, is now quite low by historical standards, and the baying for a rate increase is louder than ever. But inflation is subdued, indeed below target, and wages are still going nowhere. Should the Fed be raising rates in the name of “normalization”?

Well, consider the situation in 1997, when the unemployment rate dropped through 5 percent. The Fed did raise rates a quarter point, but then stopped, waiting for inflation to become a problem — which it never did, even though unemployment continued to fall, eventually to 4 percent.




The lesson is that the Fed really doesn’t know what level of U3 constitutes full employment, and should be very cautious about acting preemptively absent any signs of inflation problems.

Why is this time different? Many people seem to think that the case for raising rates is made stronger by the fact that we’re currently at zero, which seems weird and unnatural. But if you actually think through the logic, it’s the other way around. When the Fed funds rate was 5 percent, there was room to cut if a rate hike turned out to be premature — that is, the risks of moving too soon and moving too late were more or less symmetrical. Now they aren’t: if the Fed moves too late, it can always raise rates more, but if it moves too soon, it can push us into a trap that’s hard to escape.

Hiking rates now is still a really bad idea — and the arguments for that bad idea just keep getting worse.

Krugman
« Última modificação: 2015-09-05 01:49:25 por Lark »
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Lark

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Re: Krugman et al
« Responder #2296 em: 2015-09-05 01:47:02 »
This is the worst argument for the Fed to raise rates

People used to say the Federal Reserve had to raise rates to fight nonexistent inflation. Then they said the Federal Reserve had to raise rates to fight nonexistent bubbles. And now they say the Federal Reserve has to raise rates for nonexistent reasons. Just, you know, to show that it can.

This is not progress.

What is, though, are all the jobs the economy has been adding. That's been an average of 243,000 a month for the last 12, which has been enough to drive unemployment down, as reported Friday, to 5.1 percent. Now, that sure looks like a return to economic normalcy, so shouldn't the Fed return us to interest rate normalcy by increasing them from zero? Maybe. The Fed, after all, doesn't want to wait until the economy is obviously overheating to start raising rates, but rather right before it does so.

The only problem with that is there aren't any signs the economy is anything other than properly heated right now. Workers still aren't getting bigger raises, just 2 percent a year compared to the 3.5 to 4 percent they normally would, and inflation is still dead at just 0.3 percent. That picture doesn't change even if you strip out volatile food and energy prices, with so-called core inflation at only 1.2 percent, and not even trending up. Given that raising rates too early would hurt more than raising them too late—more unemployment we don't want would be worse than more inflation we do—and it's hard to see why the Fed should do so this September, like it's said it might.

But some people are tired of this debate. The Fed hinted it might raise rates now, and, by golly, that's what they want it to do, whether or not the data actually support that. "What are you worrying about, September or December," former Fed governor Laurence Meyer wondered, when "it doesn't matter" and the Fed should "just pull the trigger." Economist Tyler Cowen said he "would consider a 'dare' quarter point increase just to show the world that zero short rates are not considered necessary for prosperity and stability." And New York Times columnist William Cohan implored the Fed to "show some spine" and start hiking despite the sell-off.

These are psychological arguments, not economic ones. Hawks, in other words, have given up trying to justify their calls for higher interest rates with warnings about incipient inflation or bubbles. They tried that for years, and have been wrong for years. So now it's about showing markets that not only is the Fed "tough," but also that it thinks the economy is tough enough to handle higher rates, even if the economic case for them isn't that strong. The rationale keeps changing, but the conclusion doesn't. No matter what, even if the dollar is up, inflation is down, and wages aren't rising, it's a good time to raise rates.

Just don't ask them why.

Matt O'Brien
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So, first of all, let me assert my firm belief that the only thing we have to fear is...fear itself — nameless, unreasoning, unjustified terror which paralyzes needed efforts to convert retreat into advance.
Franklin D. Roosevelt

Lark

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Re: Krugman et al
« Responder #2297 em: 2015-09-07 23:04:10 »
Paul Krugman - New York Times Blog
Affinity and Inflation



Brad DeLong marvels at Peter Schiff insisting to Josh Barro that US inflation is far higher than the official statistics acknowledge, and hence that the economy is actually shrinking. Incidentally, the independent Billion Prices index — which is internet-based, and places a higher weight on goods as opposed to services including housing — is actually showing deflation right now.

Brad — picking up on me, I think — suggests that it’s about affinity fraud. The picture above is from my slides for the Festival of Dangerous Ideas. The figure on the left, for those not familiar with the classics, is Snidely Whiplash, the enemy of Dudley Do-Right; I use him to symbolize the notion that bad economic ideas are propounded by people with an interest in having the government pursue bad policies. On the right is Bernie Madoff, but I’m not thinking of Madoff as much as his followers, who trusted him because they thought he was one of them. That’s what affinity fraud is all about.

I’ve been arguing for a while that inflation paranoia is best understood in affinity fraud terms. It’s true that some people benefit from deflation, but it’s hard to make a general case that this is what’s driving the phenomenon. And all the CNBC and Zero Hedge followers have been losing money if they believe what they’re hearing. To quote myself:

So who are the people who feel a deep affinity with a crotchety crank? Um, crotchety white guys feeling cranky. The whiteness is, I believe, an important part of the story, as I’ll explain in a minute.

The basic mindset of the kind of people who pay Ron Paul for his economic advice is pretty clear: they’ve made some money over the course of their lives, they believe that all of it reflects their own virtue, and they think they know from that experience what it takes to create wealth. They hear that the Fed is printing money, and it sounds to them like a violation of both the laws of economics and morality — and they surely think of it as a plot to take away their completely earned gains and give them to Those People (hence the whiteness issue).

You can try as hard as you like to tell such people that monetary policy is mainly a technical problem, that the Fed isn’t giving money away, and that predictions of runaway inflation have been utterly wrong; it will make no difference. You can point out that they would have done a much better job of investing if they had listened to the MIT gang; sorry, we’re just not their kind of people.

This stuff will never go away.

krugman
Be Kind; Everyone You Meet is Fighting a Battle.
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So, first of all, let me assert my firm belief that the only thing we have to fear is...fear itself — nameless, unreasoning, unjustified terror which paralyzes needed efforts to convert retreat into advance.
Franklin D. Roosevelt

Lark

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Re: Krugman et al
« Responder #2298 em: 2015-09-07 23:39:03 »
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Be Kind; Everyone You Meet is Fighting a Battle.
Ian Mclaren
------------------------------
If you have more than you need, build a longer table rather than a taller fence.
l6l803399
-------------------------------------------
So, first of all, let me assert my firm belief that the only thing we have to fear is...fear itself — nameless, unreasoning, unjustified terror which paralyzes needed efforts to convert retreat into advance.
Franklin D. Roosevelt