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Autor Tópico: Krugman et al  (Lida 605165 vezes)

Lark

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Re:Krugman et al
« Responder #1280 em: 2014-03-17 16:15:08 »
Be Kind; Everyone You Meet is Fighting a Battle.
Ian Mclaren
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If you have more than you need, build a longer table rather than a taller fence.
l6l803399
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So, first of all, let me assert my firm belief that the only thing we have to fear is...fear itself — nameless, unreasoning, unjustified terror which paralyzes needed efforts to convert retreat into advance.
Franklin D. Roosevelt

Lark

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Re:Krugman et al
« Responder #1281 em: 2014-03-21 03:28:34 »
Nobody Could Have Predicted, Monetary Edition

Brad DeLong and Josh Bivens send us to a House hearing on monetary policy, in which three conservatives explain why it was totally forgivable for everyone on their side to predict runaway inflation from the Fed’s expansion of the monetary base, and why the failure of that inflation to appear says nothing at all about possible flaws in their approach.

It’s actually kind of amazing. In the exchange Brad highlights, Marvin Goodfriend says, how could you expect anyone to predict that reserves would just pile up and not be lent out — nothing like that had happened since the 1930s. And Larry White then adds that it was all sterilized because the Fed paid a whopping 0.25 percent interest rate on reserves.

Gosh. We had just had the worst financial crisis since, um, the 1930s. Why would anyone possibly think that 30s experience was relevant? I’m thinking, I’m thinking.

And you know, that experience — and specifically the collapse of the money multiplier when you hit the zero lower bound — had been extensively discussed in this 1998 paper (pdf). The author even included a figure showing what happened:


Furthermore, it just wasn’t true that nothing like that had happened since the 1930s. Exactly the same thing had happened in Japan, and the big expansion of the Japanese monetary base in the early 2000s had exactly the same effect:


Meanwhile, if you really believe that 25 basis points of interest on reserves is enough to sterilize $3 trillion of monetary base, you shouldn’t be worried at all about the inflationary effects of Fed policy, should you? After all, this makes them look very easy to contain.

But of course it wasn’t the interest on reserves, as both the 30s case and Japan show.

What gets me here is the complete unwillingness to accept the reality test. Here you have monetary economists who made a totally wrong prediction, at a time when other people were not only getting it right, but explaining carefully both the theoretical and the empirical basis for their prediction. Yet the reaction of those who wrongly predicted runaway inflation is to assert that (a) nobody could have predicted (even though some us did) and (b) it’s just special circumstances. The possibility of conceding that their model was wrong never seems to cross their minds.
Be Kind; Everyone You Meet is Fighting a Battle.
Ian Mclaren
------------------------------
If you have more than you need, build a longer table rather than a taller fence.
l6l803399
-------------------------------------------
So, first of all, let me assert my firm belief that the only thing we have to fear is...fear itself — nameless, unreasoning, unjustified terror which paralyzes needed efforts to convert retreat into advance.
Franklin D. Roosevelt

vbm

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Re:Krugman et al
« Responder #1282 em: 2014-03-21 10:44:51 »
A macroeconomia, realmente, distancia a explicação
do mundo visível dos efeitos sociais, da intuição
natural e próxima da prática microeconómica.

É uma diferença que muito isola
os economistas do senso comum social.

Mas, na verdade, devia melhorar-se
esteticamente o modelo dos fluxos
económico e financeiros

do produto e do rendimento de cada país,

de modo a  que se notasse claramente o efeito previsível
de cada medida mais vultuosa infligida neste ou naquele agregado global.


Keynes ressuscitaria com boa saúde.
Aperfeiçoar-se-iam os rácios empíricos.

Mas, fundamental, não poderiam omitir-se
as relações económicas internacionais
entre os grandes actores políticos:

Europa, Rússia, OPEP,  USA,
China, Japão, Sudeste Asiático,
Hemisfério Sul: América e África.


Porque, esse é o único defeito
do sistema Keynesiano:
a fuga de capitais
para o exterior
de um  país.
« Última modificação: 2014-03-21 10:45:27 por vbm »

Lark

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Re:Krugman et al
« Responder #1283 em: 2014-03-25 19:29:17 »
What It Would Have Taken
Brad DeLong is wrong. He thinks we have a disagreement, but he’s misinterpreting what I said when I argued that the Fed’s 2008 inflation phobia wasn’t responsible for the Great Recession and the Lesser Depression that have followed and continue to this day.

What Brad says — and I agree with — is that there is no economic necessity behind our ongoing employment and output disaster. We could and should have moved the resources employed in the housing boom to other uses, and needn’t have paid this immense cost.

But what would it have taken — what would it take now — to have maintained or restored full employment? My argument is that it would have required more radical, aggressive policies than anyone close to the levers of power has been willing to contemplate, at any point along the way. So the fact that the Fed was wrongly obsessed with inflation for most of 2008, the original subject of my post, was just a contributing factor; things would have been a bit better, but nowhere near OK, if the Fed had stayed focused on underlying inflation and ignored the effects of the commodity-price blip.

Think of it this way: what would a really effective set of policies be right now? First of all, we should aggressively reverse the fiscal austerity of the last few years, getting government at all levels spending several points of GDP more to boost demand.

Monetary policy should accommodate that boost; interest rates should not go up even if inflation goes somewhat above 2 percent. In fact, there’s an overwhelming prudential case for raising the inflation target — even if we’re not sure about seculat stagnation, it might be true, and we definitely know that the risk of hitting the zero lower bound is much higher than Fed officials imagined when they settled on 2 percent as the magic number.

I’m not totally wedded to these particular numbers, but let’s say for the sake of argument that the right policy is two years of fiscal expansion amounting to 3 percent of GDP each year, plus a permanent rise in the inflation target to 4 percent. These wouldn’t be radical moves in terms of Econ 101 — they are in fact pretty much what textbook models would suggest make sense given what we have learned about macroeconomic vulnerabilities. But they are completely outside the bounds of respectable discussion.

That’s the sense in which we are “doomed” to long-term stagnation. We have met the enemy, and it’s not the economic fundamentals, it’s us.
Be Kind; Everyone You Meet is Fighting a Battle.
Ian Mclaren
------------------------------
If you have more than you need, build a longer table rather than a taller fence.
l6l803399
-------------------------------------------
So, first of all, let me assert my firm belief that the only thing we have to fear is...fear itself — nameless, unreasoning, unjustified terror which paralyzes needed efforts to convert retreat into advance.
Franklin D. Roosevelt

Lark

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Re:Krugman et al
« Responder #1284 em: 2014-03-25 19:46:55 »
American Patrimony

One problem the Piketty work I discuss in today’s column may have — at least in America — is the widespread perception, even among those who take inequality seriously, that it’s all about compensation, that wealth inequality isn’t that big an issue, and that inheritance is also not that big an issue. We think hedge fund managers, not Kochs and Waltons.

But is this perception right? A lot of it seems to be based on the Fed’s Survey of Consumer Finances — but this may have trouble tracking really huge fortunes for the same reasons standard income surveys have trouble tracking really high incomes. And the problem is especially acute because wealth distribution is even more skewed than income distribution.

So it turns out that Emmanuel Saez and Gabriel Zucman have been developing an alternative procedure for estimating top wealth shares — preliminary slides here (pdf) — and it tells a very different story from the common one. According to their estimates, the wealth share of the very wealthy is in fact all the way back to Gilded Age levels:


Meanwhile, focusing on the upper middle class, which is still fashionable among some pundits, misses the whole thing, because everyone below the 99th percentile has actually been left behind:


If Saez and Zucman are right, and I have every reason to believe that they are, even those upset by trends in US inequality are living in the past. They still think Gordon Gekko is the problem — but if you look at my first chart, you see that things have moved on a lot since 1987, when Wall Street came out. Back then scrappy self-made predators ruled; now we’re much more likely to be talking about their children and heirs.

Patrimonial capitalism is already here, to a much greater extent than people realize.
Be Kind; Everyone You Meet is Fighting a Battle.
Ian Mclaren
------------------------------
If you have more than you need, build a longer table rather than a taller fence.
l6l803399
-------------------------------------------
So, first of all, let me assert my firm belief that the only thing we have to fear is...fear itself — nameless, unreasoning, unjustified terror which paralyzes needed efforts to convert retreat into advance.
Franklin D. Roosevelt

vbm

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Re:Krugman et al
« Responder #1285 em: 2014-03-25 20:04:55 »
Quer os top 0.1% quer os 1%, vivem  de rendimento sem trabalho actual. Pelo que são os que usufruem 100% das rendas de monopólio isentos das agruras de direcção de qualquer negócio. Vivem no puro ócio de dispêndio sem freio. É pertinente distingui-los do modesto rendimento quase igual ao da inflação monetária, pequeno prémio do aforro líquido de precaução, mera distribuição temporal de despesa. Sem margem de dúvida, os rentistas de monopólio, os 0.1% e os 1% top 10, são verdadeiras sanguessugas de todos os produtores de uma sociedade: patrões e respectivos assalariados.
« Última modificação: 2014-03-25 20:07:39 por vbm »

Incognitus

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Re:Krugman et al
« Responder #1286 em: 2014-03-25 20:16:22 »
Quer os top 0.1% quer os 1%, vivem  de rendimento sem trabalho actual. Pelo que são os que usufruem 100% das rendas de monopólio isentos das agruras de direcção de qualquer negócio. Vivem no puro ócio de dispêndio sem freio. É pertinente distingui-los do modesto rendimento quase igual ao da inflação monetária, pequeno prémio do aforro líquido de precaução, mera distribuição temporal de despesa. Sem margem de dúvida, os rentistas de monopólio, os 0.1% e os 1% top 10, são verdadeiras sanguessugas de todos os produtores de uma sociedade: patrões e respectivos assalariados.

Não me parece que os 1% vivam no puro ócio, a maioria serão fundadores de empresas.

Talvez os herdeiros, esses sim. Os fundadores, não.
"Nem tudo o que pode ser contado conta, e nem tudo o que conta pode ser contado.", Albert Einstein

Incognitus, www.thinkfn.com

Lark

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Re:Krugman et al
« Responder #1287 em: 2014-03-25 20:25:18 »
Notes on Piketty (Wonkish)
I’m working on a long-form review (for the New York Review of Books) of Thomas Piketty’s epic Capital in the 21st Century; I don’t want to steal my own thunder, so a broader reaction will have to wait. But for my own edification I wanted to write up a clarification of a couple of technical points.

Piketty’s big idea is that we are in the early stages of returning to a society dominated by great dynastic fortunes, by inherited wealth. And he has an analytic argument to back up that idea. I wonder, however, how many readers will fully appreciate either the strengths of the weaknesses of that argument.

To get at what is going on in his book, I think it’s useful to do it in the reverse order from his own presentation, first laying out a necessary condition for dynastic dominance, then asking what macroeconomic forces determine whether this condition is met.

So: Imagine a wealthy family that has managed, somehow or other, to guarantee that a large fraction of its income is used to accumulate more wealth. Can this family thereby acquire a dominant position in society?

The answer depends on the relationship between r, the rate of return on assets, and g, the overall rate of economic growth. If r is less than g, dynasties are doomed to erode: even if all income from a very large fortune is devoted to accumulation, the family’s wealth will grow more slowly than the economy, and it will slowly slide into obscurity. But if r is greater than g, dynastic wealth can indeed grow to gigantic size.

So what determines r-g? Piketty stresses the effects of changes in economic growth. I find this easiest to see in terms of a standard Solow model. In the figure below, we assume that s is the aggregate rate of saving; that technological change is labor-augmenting, so that it can be thought of as increasing the number of effective workers faster than the number of actual workers; and that there is an aggregate production function Q/L = f(K/L) where Q/L is output per effective worker and K/L is capital per effective worker. The familiar diagram then looks like this:


Over time, the economy converges to steady-state growth at the rate n, which is the sum of labor force growth and technological progress, and the capital-output ratio converges to s/n.

As the figure shows, a decline in n will lead to a rise in the capital-output ratio and a fall in both r and g. Which falls more? Well, it depends on what happens to the capital share in output, which in turn depends on the elasticity of substitution between capital and labor.

I find this easiest to think of in terms of a numerical example. Let’s assume that s = .09 and initially n = .03. Then the capital-output ratio is 3; if the capital share is .3, r=.10. Now let n and hence steady-state g fall to .015. K/Q rises to 6. If the capital share doesn’t change, r falls to .05 – that is, it falls in proportion to growth. If the elasticity of substitution is less than 1, the higher ratio of capital to effective labor means a fall in the capital share, so the return on capital falls more than the growth rate. However, Piketty asserts that the elasticity of substitution is more than 1, so that the capital share rises, and r falls less than g.

And then Piketty tells us something remarkable: historically, r has almost always exceeded g – but there was an exceptional period in the 20th century, a period of rapid labor force growth and technological progress, when r was less than g. And he asserts that the kind of society we consider normal, in which high incomes reflect personal achievement rather than inherited wealth, is in fact an aberration driven by this exceptional period.


It’s a remarkable, sweeping vision. A couple of questions:

1. How much of the decline in r relative to g in the 20th century reflected fast growth, and how much reflected policies that either taxed or in effect confiscated inherited wealth? In other words, how much was destiny, how much wars and political upheaval? Piketty stresses both factors, but never gives us a relative quantitative assessment.

2. How relevant is this story to what has happened so far? In the United States, as Piketty himself stresses, soaring inequality has to date been largely been driven by labor income – by “supermanagers” (I prefer superexecutives.)

Much more when I deliver the whole thing.
Be Kind; Everyone You Meet is Fighting a Battle.
Ian Mclaren
------------------------------
If you have more than you need, build a longer table rather than a taller fence.
l6l803399
-------------------------------------------
So, first of all, let me assert my firm belief that the only thing we have to fear is...fear itself — nameless, unreasoning, unjustified terror which paralyzes needed efforts to convert retreat into advance.
Franklin D. Roosevelt

vbm

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Re:Krugman et al
« Responder #1288 em: 2014-03-25 20:27:59 »
Não me parece que os 1% vivam no puro ócio, a maioria serão fundadores de empresas.

Talvez os herdeiros, esses sim. Os fundadores, não.


É possível.
Só vendo,
caso acaso.

Mas, eu não faço uma censura moral
dos que vivam no ócio. Acho perfeito.

O que vivenciem pelo ócio é que
ordenará uns em relação aos outros
numa escala de sabedoria e valor estimável.

Colectivamente, apenas pondero que a carga
que fica a pesar sobre os produtores,

ou o desvio desrazoável do
tipo de consumo e
de investimento
da classe possidente-top-10,

pode comprometer o máximo bem estar para todos.
- como o defendia veementemente o ex-chanceler  Ludwig Erhard.



vbm

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Re:Krugman et al
« Responder #1289 em: 2014-03-25 20:31:53 »
Notes on Piketty (Wonkish) [ ]

Só vi por alto.

Mas deve ser
muito interessante.

Voltarei para ler.
Obrigado, pela referência.

Lark

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Re:Krugman et al
« Responder #1290 em: 2014-03-25 20:40:26 »
piketty

ver o video logo no início
« Última modificação: 2014-03-25 20:43:28 por Lark »
Be Kind; Everyone You Meet is Fighting a Battle.
Ian Mclaren
------------------------------
If you have more than you need, build a longer table rather than a taller fence.
l6l803399
-------------------------------------------
So, first of all, let me assert my firm belief that the only thing we have to fear is...fear itself — nameless, unreasoning, unjustified terror which paralyzes needed efforts to convert retreat into advance.
Franklin D. Roosevelt

Lark

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Re:Krugman et al
« Responder #1291 em: 2014-03-25 21:40:15 »
Capitalism vs. Democracy
JAN. 28, 2014

Thomas Piketty’s new book, “Capital in the Twenty-First Century,” described by one French newspaper as a “a political and theoretical bulldozer,” defies left and right orthodoxy by arguing that worsening inequality is an inevitable outcome of free market capitalism.

Piketty, a professor at the Paris School of Economics, does not stop there. He contends that capitalism’s inherent dynamic propels powerful forces that threaten democratic societies.

Capitalism, according to Piketty, confronts both modern and modernizing countries with a dilemma: entrepreneurs become increasingly dominant over those who own only their own labor. In Piketty’s view, while emerging economies can defeat this logic in the near term, in the long run, “when pay setters set their own pay, there’s no limit,” unless “confiscatory tax rates” are imposed.

Piketty’s book — published four months ago in France and due out in English this March — suggests that traditional liberal government policies on spending, taxation and regulation will fail to diminish inequality. Piketty has also delivered and posted a series of lectures in French and English outlining his argument.

Conservative readers will find that Piketty’s book disputes the view that the free market, liberated from the distorting effects of government intervention, “distributes,” as Milton Friedman famously put it, “the fruits of economic progress among all people. That’s the secret of the enormous improvements in the conditions of the working person over the past two centuries.”

Piketty proposes instead that the rise in inequality reflects markets working precisely as they should: “This has nothing to do with a market imperfection: the more perfect the capital market, the higher” the rate of return on capital is in comparison to the rate of growth of the economy. The higher this ratio is, the greater inequality is.

In a 20-page review for the June issue of the Journal of Economic Literature that has already caused a stir, Branko Milanovic, an economist in the World Bank’s research department, declared:

“I am hesitant to call Thomas Piketty’s new book Capital in the 21st Century one of the best books in economics written in the past several decades. Not that I do not believe it is, but I am careful because of the inflation of positive book reviews and because contemporaries are often poor judges of what may ultimately prove to be influential. With these two caveats, let me state that we are in the presence of one of the watershed books in economic thinking.”

There are a number of key arguments in Piketty’s book. One is that the six-decade period of growing equality in western nations – starting roughly with the onset of World War I and extending into the early 1970s – was unique and highly unlikely to be repeated. That period, Piketty suggests, represented an exception to the more deeply rooted pattern of growing inequality.

According to Piketty, those halcyon six decades were the result of two world wars and the Great Depression. The owners of capital – those at the top of the pyramid of wealth and income – absorbed a series of devastating blows. These included the loss of credibility and authority as markets crashed; physical destruction of capital throughout Europe in both World War I and World War II; the raising of tax rates, especially on high incomes, to finance the wars; high rates of inflation that eroded the assets of creditors; the nationalization of major industries in both England and France; and the appropriation of industries and property in post-colonial countries.

At the same time, the Great Depression produced the New Deal coalition in the United States, which empowered an insurgent labor movement. The postwar period saw huge gains in growth and productivity, the benefits of which were shared with workers who had strong backing from the trade union movement and from the dominant Democratic Party. Widespread support for liberal social and economic policy was so strong that even a Republican president who won easily twice, Dwight D. Eisenhower, recognized that an assault on the New Deal would be futile. In Eisenhower’s words, “Should any political party attempt to abolish Social Security, unemployment insurance, and eliminate labor laws and farm programs, you would not hear from that party again in our political history.”

The six decades between 1914 and 1973 stand out from the past and future, according to Piketty, because the rate of economic growth exceeded the after-tax rate of return on capital. Since then, the rate of growth of the economy has declined, while the return on capital is rising to its pre-World War I levels.

“If the rate of return on capital remains permanently above the rate of growth of the economy – this is Piketty’s key inequality relationship,” Milanovic writes in his review, it “generates a changing functional distribution of income in favor of capital and, if capital incomes are more concentrated than incomes from labor (a rather uncontroversial fact), personal income distribution will also get more unequal — which indeed is what we have witnessed in the past 30 years.”

The only way to halt this process, he argues, is to impose a global progressive tax on wealth – global in order to prevent (among other things) the transfer of assets to countries without such levies. A global tax, in this scheme, would restrict the concentration of wealth and limit the income flowing to capital.

Piketty would impose an annual graduated tax on stocks and bonds, property and other assets that are customarily not taxed until they are sold. He leaves open the rate and formula for distributing revenues.

The Piketty diagnosis helps explain the recent drop in the share of national income going to labor (see Figure 2) and a parallel increase in the share going to capital.

Piketty’s analysis also sheds light on the worldwide growth in the number of the unemployed. The International Labor Organization, an agency of the United Nations, reported recently that the number of unemployed grew by 5 million from 2012 to 2013, reaching nearly 202 million by the end of last year. It is projected to grow to 215 million by 2018.

Piketty’s wealth tax solution runs directly counter to the principles of contemporary American conservatives who advocate antithetical public policies: cutting top rates and eliminating the estate tax. It would also run counter to the interests of those countries that have purposefully legislated low tax rates in order to attract investment. The very infeasibility of establishing a global wealth tax serves to reinforce Piketty’s argument concerning the inevitability of increasing inequality.

Some liberals are none too happy with Piketty, either.

Dean Baker, one of the founders of the Center for Economic and Policy Research, wrote me in an email that he believes that Piketty “is far too pessimistic.” Baker contends that there are a host of far less ambitious actions that might help to ameliorate inequality:

“Is it really implausible that we would ever see any sort of tax on finance in the U.S., either the financial transactions tax that I would favor or the financial activities tax advocated by the I.M.F.?”

Baker also noted that “much of our capital is tied up in intellectual property” and that reform of patent laws could serve both to limit the value of drug and other patents and simultaneously lower consumer costs.

Lawrence Mishel, the president of the Economic Policy Institute, responded to my email asking for his take on Piketty:


“We’d take the perspective that this phenomenon is related to the suppression of wage growth so that policies which generate broad-based wage growth are an antidote. The political economy is such that the political power to enact those taxes also requires a mobilized citizenry and institutional power, such as a robust labor movement.”

Daron Acemoglu, a more centrist economist at MIT, praised Piketty’s careful acquisition of data, as well as his emphasis on the economic forces and political conflicts over distribution that shape inequality. In an email, Acemoglu went on to say:

“Part of his interpretation I do not share. Piketty argues that there is a natural tendency for high inequality in ‘capitalist’ economies (the term capitalist is not my favorite) and that certain unusual events (world wars, the Great Depression and policy responses thereto) temporarily reduced inequality. Then both earnings inequality and inequality between capital and labor have been reverting back to their ‘normal’ levels. I don’t think that the data allow us to reach this conclusion. All we see is this pattern of fall and rise, but so many other things are going on. It is consistent with what Piketty says, but it is also consistent with certain technological changes and discontinuities (or globalization) having created a surge in inequality which will then stabilize or even reverse in the next several decades. It is also consistent with the dynamics of political power changing and this being a major contributor to the rise in inequality in advanced economies. We may be seeing parts of several different trends underpinned by several different major shocks rather than the mean-reverting dynamics following the shocks that Piketty singles out.”

There is, however, significant liberal applause for Piketty.

Richard Freeman, an economist at Harvard who specializes in inequality, unions and employment patterns, wrote me by email:

“I am in 100 percent agreement with Piketty and would add that much of labor inequality comes because high earners got paid through stock options and capital ownership.”

Freeman and two colleagues, Joseph Blasi and Douglas Kruse, professors at the School of Labor and Management Relations at Rutgers, contend in their 2013 book, “The Citizen’s Share: Putting Ownership Back into Democracy,” that they have an alternative to a global wealth tax. They argue that:

“The way forward is to reform the structure of American business so that workers can supplement their wages with significant capital ownership stakes and meaningful capital income and profit shares.”

In other words, let’s turn everyone into a capitalist.

Piketty does not treat worker ownership as a solution, and he is generally dismissive of small-bore reforms, arguing that they will have only modest effects on economic growth worldwide, which he believes is very likely to be stuck at 1 to 1.5 percent through the rest of this century.

Piketty joins a number of scholars raising significant questions about how the global economic system will deal with such phenomena as robotics, the hollowing out of the job market, outsourcing and global competition.

His prognosis is extremely bleak. Without what he acknowledges is a politically unrealistic global wealth tax, he sees the United States and the developed world on a path toward a degree of inequality that will reach levels likely to cause severe social disruption.

Final judgment on Piketty’s work will come with time – a problem in and of itself, because if he is right, inequality will worsen, making it all the more difficult to take preemptive action.

Fig. 1: After-tax rate of return vs. growth rate at the world level from Antiquity until 2100. Credit Thomas Piketty
Fig. 2: Nonfarm Business Sector: Labor Share Credit U.S. Department of Labor
Be Kind; Everyone You Meet is Fighting a Battle.
Ian Mclaren
------------------------------
If you have more than you need, build a longer table rather than a taller fence.
l6l803399
-------------------------------------------
So, first of all, let me assert my firm belief that the only thing we have to fear is...fear itself — nameless, unreasoning, unjustified terror which paralyzes needed efforts to convert retreat into advance.
Franklin D. Roosevelt

Zel

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Re:Krugman et al
« Responder #1292 em: 2014-03-25 22:00:06 »
E tu lark, o que achas sobre a natureza do capitalismo e a desigualdade crescente?

Lark

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Re:Krugman et al
« Responder #1293 em: 2014-03-25 22:20:11 »
E tu lark, o que achas sobre a natureza do capitalismo e a desigualdade crescente?

não ando longe do piketty.
o capitalismo a funcionar bem leva a enormes acumulações de capital. quanto mais capital se tem, mais capital se gera.
se o ritmo de geração de capital, por quem o tem,  for superior ao crescimento da economia a desigualdade agrava-se.
e o ritmo é algo brutal; continuando assim não estou bem a ver como é que as sociedades capitalistas sobrevivem.
ou há uma ruptura social radical - tipo revolução francesa ou revolução russa de 1917 - ou caímos em qualquer coisa como o que é retratado no filme Hunger Games.
Não sei como é que vai ser.

Não admira que comecem a aparecer esquemas de sobrevivência 'pendurados' no estado. É a única forma de manter alguma paz social. Embora o grande capital diga que está a ser descaradamente roubado, que os famigerados 47% são uma cambada de moochers e coisa e tal, é mais como um seguro de vida do sistema capitalista. Sem essa rede as sociedades capitalistas rebentavam rapidamente.

Resumindo: quanto mais se tem, mais se terá. Mas para isto continuar assim tem que se atirar umas migalhas aos pobres senão acorda-se um dia com a cabeça debaixo de uma guilhotina ou encostado a uma árvore a servir de alvo a um bando de bolcheviques.

E tu o que achas?

L
Be Kind; Everyone You Meet is Fighting a Battle.
Ian Mclaren
------------------------------
If you have more than you need, build a longer table rather than a taller fence.
l6l803399
-------------------------------------------
So, first of all, let me assert my firm belief that the only thing we have to fear is...fear itself — nameless, unreasoning, unjustified terror which paralyzes needed efforts to convert retreat into advance.
Franklin D. Roosevelt

Lark

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Re:Krugman et al
« Responder #1294 em: 2014-03-25 22:34:50 »
Free exchange
Economics

LAST year Thomas Piketty, an economist at the Paris School of Economics and a renowned expert on global inequality, published a book titled "Capital in the Twenty-first Century"—in French. It will be released in English on March 10th. We reviewed the book earlier this year, but it is detailed and important enough, in our opinion, to deserve additional discussion. We will therefore be publishing a series of posts over the next few weeks—live-blogging the book, as it were—to draw out its arguments at slightly greater length. Starting today, with the book's introduction.

Capital, as I will refer to Mr Piketty's book from here on out, is an incredibly ambitious book. The author has self-consciously put the book forward as a companion to, and perhaps the intellectual equal of, Karl Marx's Capital. Like Marx, Mr Piketty aims to provide a political economy theory of everything. More specifically, he attempts to re-establish distribution as the central issue in economics, and in doing so to reorient our perceptions of the trajectory of growth in the modern economic era. Mr Piketty's great advantage in attempting all this, relative to past peers, is a wealth of data and analysis, compiled by himself and others over the last 15 or so years.

Mr Piketty begins in an introduction that proceeds in two parts. He first describes the intellectual tradition into which the book falls. The second, which is the basic outline of his theory, I will tackle in the next post.

The study of political economy emerged in the first decades of the Industrial Revolution, in the late 18th century, in Britain and France. The great thinkers of the era were attempting to understand the dramatic societal and economic changes of the day and to describe their mechanics in a way that would allow them to anticipate future developments. To a great extent they focused on distributional issues—and worried that distribution spelled serious trouble for the capitalist system. The Reverend Thomas Malthus, for instance, famously worried that overpopulation would drive down wages to subsistence level, leading to dangerous political upheaval. To short-circuit this possibility the compassionate reverend recommended that governments cut off assistance to the poor and limit their reproduction.

David Ricardo's 19th century analysis was more measured but nonetheless similar in its concern about the sustainability of the contemporary economic system. He focused his attention on the relative scarcity of factors of production, and the effect of scarcity on shares of national income. Output and population were rising fast, he noted, while land supplies remained fixed, suggesting that land prices might rise without bound. As a result, he speculated, land rents would come to eat up a steadily rising share of national income, threatening the capitalist system.

Ricardo was wrong in the long run—soaring agricultural productivity (which both he and Malthus failed to anticipate) meant that agricultural land was not the scarce factor for very long. But he was right in the short run, and the short run matters. A period of a few decades in which the price of a scarce resource soars can lead to enormous accumulation of wealth in the hands of relatively few owners of capital. That concentration can persist even after technological change eases the initial scarcity: a point Mr Piketty notes is relevant in thinking about soaring prices for urban property or natural resources.

And then there was Marx. He (along with Friedrich Engels) was the first of the great political economists to wrestle directly with the effects of industrial capitalism. Marx was reacting to the reality of industrial growth at the time: through the first century or so of industrialisation output grew steadily, but there was virtually no meaningful increase in real wages. In the "hungry 1840s", when the Communist Manifesto was published, capitalism seemed like an incredibly raw deal for workers. That had begun to change by the time Marx published the first volume of Capital, in 1867. But the emergence of steady wage growth did little to diminish concentrated wealth.

Marx saw capitalism as fundamentally flawed, containing the roots of its own destruction. As owners of capital gobbled up the gains from growth, they would accumulate still greater piles of capital—"infinite accumulation". This would either drive the return on capital down to nothing, leading the capitalists to destroy the system by battling it out with each other, or it would allow the capitalists to capture a rising share of national income (like Ricardo's landowners), leading the workers to revolt. But Marx also turned out to be mistaken. He did so in large part, says Mr Piketty, because of a lack of data, and because he and others failed to anticipate that rapid technological growth could reduce the relevance of past wealth accumulation.

This latter factor helps shape one of the main elements of Mr Piketty's theory of everything: that the rate of growth is hugely important in determining how long a shadow old wealth casts. If not exactly an equaliser, fast growth nonetheless puts a finger on the scale on the side of those without great wealth.

Now, this entire line of theoretical work was thrown into upheaval by the events of the period from 1914-1945. The chaos and policy shifts of the period wiped out much of the world's previously accumulated wealth and set the stage for a burst of rapid, broad-based growth. Meanwhile, economists were for the first time gathering detailed data on personal incomes. And so when Simon Kuznets began looking at inequality trends in the 1950s, the data suggested to him that in "advanced phases" of capitalist development inequality tended to fall. The idea that inequality rose and then fell as an economy developed became known as the Kuznets curve. For the first time hard data had been brought to bear on distributional questions, and the news seemed pretty good. Kuznets' view became the foundation from which modern economics approach distributional issues, despite the fact that it was based on a very limited period during which declining inequality could not remotely be considered the result of natural economic processes.

That, as Mr Piketty sees it, is where he comes in. For most of the 20th century the distribution of incomes was a minor issue within economics. Growth and management of the business cycle were the sexy economic issues.

That is now changing, based in part on the academic work Mr Piketty has done (much of which is accessible at the World Top Incomes Database). While emerging-market growth has narrowed global inequality, income inequality within countries, including many large emerging markets, has been rising. The return of the importance of scarce land, resources, and intellectual property has contributed to a resurgence in wealth accumulation. Distributional worries are back, and Mr Piketty argues that that is the natural state of affairs rather than an aberration.

"In a way", Mr Piketty writes, "we are in the same position at the beginning of the twenty-first century as our forebears were in the early nineteenth century: we are witnessing impressive changes in economies around the world, and it is very difficult to know how extensive they will turn out to be...". It can be frightening and disorienting to find oneself at such an economic juncture. We look back on Malthus' worrying with the smugness of hindsight. But those who read Malthus at the turn of the 19th century and concluded that industrialisation would result in political upheaval, misery, and war turned out to be right. It also led to quite a few good things. But the process of getting there has been anything but smooth, and distributional issues inevitably play a role when the march toward prosperity slows or beats a temporary retreat.

This is an important book arriving at an appropriate moment. It's also an entertaining and informative read, and so I hope you'll join me in reading through and discussing it.

economist
Be Kind; Everyone You Meet is Fighting a Battle.
Ian Mclaren
------------------------------
If you have more than you need, build a longer table rather than a taller fence.
l6l803399
-------------------------------------------
So, first of all, let me assert my firm belief that the only thing we have to fear is...fear itself — nameless, unreasoning, unjustified terror which paralyzes needed efforts to convert retreat into advance.
Franklin D. Roosevelt

Zel

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Re:Krugman et al
« Responder #1295 em: 2014-03-25 22:35:17 »
E tu lark, o que achas sobre a natureza do capitalismo e a desigualdade crescente?

não ando longe do piketty.
o capitalismo a funcionar bem leva a enormes acumulações de capital. quanto mais capital se tem, mais capital se gera.
se o ritmo de geração de capital, por quem o tem,  for superior ao crescimento da economia a desigualdade agrava-se.
e o ritmo é algo brutal; continuando assim não estou bem a ver como é que as sociedades capitalistas sobrevivem.
ou há uma ruptura social radical - tipo revolução francesa ou revolução russa de 1917 - ou caímos em qualquer coisa como o que é retratado no filme Hunger Games.
Não sei como é que vai ser.

Não admira que comecem a aparecer esquemas de sobrevivência 'pendurados' no estado. É a única forma de manter alguma paz social. Embora o grande capital diga que está a ser descaradamente roubado, que os famigerados 47% são uma cambada de moochers e coisa e tal, é mais como um seguro de vida do sistema capitalista. Sem essa rede as sociedades capitalistas rebentavam rapidamente.

Resumindo: quanto mais se tem, mais se terá. Mas para isto continuar assim tem que se atirar umas migalhas aos pobres senão acorda-se um dia com a cabeça debaixo de uma guilhotina ou encostado a uma árvore a servir de alvo a um bando de bolcheviques.

E tu o que achas?

L

estou dividido

tenho uma visao um pouco elitista de algumas coisa, acho que a maioria das pessoas nao aguenta o esforco de poupar e investir ou a dificuldade social de ser diferente, eh em parte genetico. portanto a natureza das coisas eh que a medida que a riqueza global aumenta as pessoas em media ate vao ganhar mais mas nao vao necessariamente ter mais riqueza acumulada, gastam qs tudo. e isso depois aparece nas estatisticas como aumento de diferencas sociais embora ate vivam melhor e apenas porque gastam o rendimento todo. esta parte para mim eh conjuntural.

por outro lado a globalizacao aumentou a competicao entre empregos da treta e estagnou os ordenados no ocidente. ao mesmo tempo aumentou os lucros dos ricos, que estao globalizados com o seu capital. esta parte com o tempo deve diminuir de efeito. mas para baralhar mais...  claro que o robots podem ser os novos chineses, hehe.

mas acho que se exagera com o problema, as pessoas nao estao a viver pior no mundo, no global ate estao melhor. o problema eh so no ocidente, onde ser pobre nao eh tao grave assim como no resto do mundo.  e pronto, ja te choquei. vais-me dizer que estao todos com fome e eu estou desligado da realidade. :D

Lark

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Re:Krugman et al
« Responder #1296 em: 2014-03-25 22:38:48 »
eh em parte genetico

Citação de: Malthus
The Reverend Thomas Malthus, for instance, famously worried that overpopulation would drive down wages to subsistence level, leading to dangerous political upheaval. To short-circuit this possibility the compassionate reverend recommended that governments cut off assistance to the poor and limit their reproduction.
Be Kind; Everyone You Meet is Fighting a Battle.
Ian Mclaren
------------------------------
If you have more than you need, build a longer table rather than a taller fence.
l6l803399
-------------------------------------------
So, first of all, let me assert my firm belief that the only thing we have to fear is...fear itself — nameless, unreasoning, unjustified terror which paralyzes needed efforts to convert retreat into advance.
Franklin D. Roosevelt

Zel

  • Visitante
Re:Krugman et al
« Responder #1297 em: 2014-03-25 22:42:13 »
eh em parte genetico

Citação de: Malthus
The Reverend Thomas Malthus, for instance, famously worried that overpopulation would drive down wages to subsistence level, leading to dangerous political upheaval. To short-circuit this possibility the compassionate reverend recommended that governments cut off assistance to the poor and limit their reproduction.

nao sejas dramatico

Lark

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Re:Krugman et al
« Responder #1298 em: 2014-03-25 22:53:00 »
a questão que o franciú coloca é a seguinte: o crescimento da riqueza, derivada dos ganhos de capitais,  é exponencial (ou geométrica ou o que for - tem um rate of change enorme).
Se este rate of change for superior ao crescimento global da economia, inexoravelmente, os detentores de capital absorverão cada vez mais do rendimento disponível e o trabalho cada vez menos. Não é sequer uma questão de robotização; é pura matemática.

O crescimento dos rendimentos do capital tende para infinito e os rendimentos do trabalho tendem para zero.

Embora temporariamente até os pobres no ocidente vivam razoavelmente bem (tu é que dizes, eu não acho) chegará a um ponto em que o rendimento do trabalho diminui até ao ponto de não ser possível viver desses rendimentos (tende para zero).

Claramente isto não é sustentável. Vai dar bronca.

L
Be Kind; Everyone You Meet is Fighting a Battle.
Ian Mclaren
------------------------------
If you have more than you need, build a longer table rather than a taller fence.
l6l803399
-------------------------------------------
So, first of all, let me assert my firm belief that the only thing we have to fear is...fear itself — nameless, unreasoning, unjustified terror which paralyzes needed efforts to convert retreat into advance.
Franklin D. Roosevelt

purehawk

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Re:Krugman et al
« Responder #1299 em: 2014-03-25 22:56:48 »